Can safe lock picks pick open lever locks? (UK)

[Squelchtone]

I've been picking pin tumblers for a while, and want to get into picking mortise locks. Safes often have similar keys and keyways, so I was wondering... can you use a Universal safe pick set on at least some mortise locks, like Chubb, ERA fortress locks, etc.?

I realise there are basically two types, curtained and uncurtained, but allowing for these two types of locks, will safe picks work?

Hope the question is understandable! Looking forward to any responses, opinions, etc.

[hag3l3]

Hmm mm, how safe does your lock have to feel before you pick it?....
Are you by chance meaning fallesafe picks?
Please expound and clarify. Would love to help.

[Steelbacks]

Ah... I think we have a case of two countries being separated by a common language.

When I say mortise lock, I mean lever lock. That may have been confusing...?

What we're talking about here is putting a specialist tool in the lock to put tension on the bolt thrower, then use a bent wire to tickle and lift the various levers to get them to the point where the bolt can be thrown. Not trying to insult anyone here, but just feel my use of language might have made you think I was talking about pin tumbler locks. Sorry if I used the wrong terms!

There are tools marketed in the UK designed by an old locksmith (now retired) called Chris Belcher. The tools are specific to a particular make and model of lever lock and retail for anything from £100 up to around £300 if I remember correctly. I know it's possible to make your own picks by just bending up bits of wire, but there are universal safe pick sets that look very similar and look like they would do the job for £10. I find the idea of them being 'universal' and designed to be used on several makes/types of locks almost as appealing as the difference in cost!

Hope this makes sense now! Thanks for the interest.

[Squelchtone]

this reminds me of the first line in this Streets song:

[Steelbacks]

Thanks Squelchtone. Not heard the song before, though I know the singer.

I guess I may have to wait a while for an answer to my question. Not sure if people in the US are asleep right now. Late morning here in the UK. Drinking tea and reading posts. How the weekend should start really!

[ice_man]

i was trying answer this very question my self today i assume you are talking about the chris belcher 2 in 1 pick as i have heard some say they can pick non curtained mortice

[Steelbacks]

Well actually Ice_man, I've seen 7 and 9 gauge safe lock picks for £20. Price is really good if they'd do the job I want them to.

If I could find suitable rod and tube I'd make my own sets of tools, but it's not easy finding a hardware store that sells suitable materials. Whole thing is made that much harder by having no exact dimensions to work to, and also not having much knowledge of the internals of lever locks and what's needed in the way of tools to pick them.

Soon I'll be living alone on a boat, so I should have time to look for materials and tinker with different locks and tool ideas. I may resort to just bending up some wire tools, but the all-in-one picks seem much more elegant and seem to give much more control when SPPing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts if you have any success with any particular tools!

[ice_man]

sorry man i have no personal experience with mortice lock i was actually looking at buying picks today when i came across your post as i was thinking about getting a safe pick set for mortice locks i know if your looking at picking non curtain mortice locks some bike wheel spokes could work till you get a better under standing i have a friend who tried thus with virtually no lock knowledge an has managed to open a couple of locks i may upload some pictures of some wires if it helps because i know theres not to much out there for mortice locks but after becoming fairly proficient with cylinder locks i now want to take the leap for mortices locks my self and if doenst help i found a floor safe yesterday with no keys

[Squelchtone]

[Moved to European Locks, Picks, and Hardware]

[sir lot is here]

Yes basically, all safes are different but with small cheap models yes , no chubb or simalar tho
hope this helps 1year later

[capt.dunc]

lets break this down into 3 parts, uncurtained mortice locks, curtained mortice locks and safe lever locks.

for uk uncurtained mortice locks you will need, loose wire picks and tensioners, or 2 in 1 picks (hobbs picks). you used to get (cheaper) left and right handed 2 in 1 picks, or better made ones (universal) where both parts were thin and strong enough to work as the tennsioner or lifter. overlifters are still left and right handed, although there is a "universal" one available where you disassemble the pick and rebuild it in the other combination. for uk door locks you will need a few 2 in 1 picks, both 6 and 7 gauge in a couple of differant sizes. note they come as a standard size and you cut them to fit, you are cutting the length of the picking tips to fit different length keyholes, and the tips should be well supported and filed to size to avoid breakage.

the chris belcher (CB) 7 gauge 2 in 1 safe pick set, this is a set allowing you to make up different sized 7 gauge 2 in 1's, and could replace having 2 or 3 7 gauge picks and loose wires, although you'd still need 6 gauge ones. i'd still rather have dedicated picks for work since some door locks can be very stiff and require some force to unlock (due to swollen frames and doors etc). the CB pick set will also come with all parts the same size and you'll need to cut it to size as you see fit, there are no suggested sizes and so it'll be up to you to decide and cut a £120 new tool yourself as you see fit.

cost, you get what you pay for, i'd be interested to see what cheap picks you're considering. i'd look to pay £50 for a 2 in in 1 with the vat added, if you can afford the Rimmer Brothers (RB) 2 in 1's then they are worth every penny (about £75).

uk curtained locks, you need 3 main picks, a 7 gauge, a 5 or 5.5 gauge and a prelifter pick. there are 3 main ones i'd recommend and there's not much in price between them, you usually get the 7 and 5 gauges together nowadays rather than seperate.
CB revesable pick set, not used the new one but my old style CB picks are my goto tools and the original from which the other loose wire picks have developed.
ILC pick set, take the best of the old RB curtain pick with the reach of the CB tool.
the new pick from Islandlocks, similar design but with a modifiable tip, not tried it yet but it's meant to good for backing out of false sets.

prelifter pick, either CB or ICL.

cost, £150-£170ish for a 7 and 5 gauge pair, £150ish for a prelifter pick. there are other older curtain picks around but they can be limited on the range of locks they work on. the above are all good, some will suit your style better than others and all require practice to use well.

safe picks, are banned from the open forum for obvious reasons. however you will require a large range of picks sized to each type of lock. the 2 in 1 picks are usually longer to allow for picking deep within safe doors. the CB pick set can replace several 7 gauge picks, but there may be times when 2 picks are required, ie 2 key retaining locks on a door. you will also need a larger range of gauges, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 9 gauge as well as picks with a piped end.



Steelbacks, for the exact dimensions for pick making use a lock. a clear cover can be useful for learning to pick and for checking the reach of wires when tool making (check you can get under the lowest lever and lift as high as the highest needs for opening)

[Steelbacks]

Thanks Captain,

However, my head hurts! :0(

Lots of good advice and info, I think, so thanks for that. However, as I'm not working as a locksmith and don't have a stash of cash to spend on what seems like a huge range of specialist picks for various makes and models of picks, I think I'll be starting off with some homebrew wire picks. I know there are some tutorials on video to look at, so that looks like the best option for now.

If I get into lever locks a bit more in the future, I may well either invest in something a bit more high tech, or have a go at making something myself. However, I have a feeling a lathe may be good for that, and at the moment mine is in storage while I wait for our new house to be built.

Thanks again for the great info, and I may post up any tools I make if I can do something with just a few hand tools.

Just thought.... Souber makes a couple of sets of wire picks/tension tools for picking lever locks. Any thoughts on them? Much more affordable at around £20 or £50 depending on which set you go for.

[capt.dunc]

i've only ever used the plain souber wires, good steel but can be hard to bend to shape. since you'll have to bend, size and shape them yourself, i'd rather spend my money on piano wire (16 gauge/ swg/ 1.6mm) and shape from scratch. check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t-QkO7yF8E islandlocks videos on shaping and using wires, this is just part 1 that i've put a link to.

not used the preformed souber wires, the quality will be good and they'll last you a lifetime, but i've no info on the suitability of the forms on various locks.


ps to add to my above post i should of mentioned the chubb 3g110 lock which has it's own pick made by Chris Belcher

[bioggy]

Short answer yes and no they will, but it depends on the gauge of the mortice lock.

Also safe picks are considerably different in lengths and some safe picks will have longer ends which would need to be shortened for mortice locks.

[rphillips52]

Worth repeating, for those whose experience is mainly limited to one type of key mechanism, that rim- and mortice-lock are terms describing methods of fixing locks. They say nothing about the key mechanism (or even if there is a key mechanism), nor about the quality of locks. Both types of fixing (and others) have been made with various key mechanisms, and in a range of qualities.