What's wrong with me?

[Slar]

Hi,

Question for you lads. im able to open Abus 65/45 with spools and master 150. when i went back to 5 normal pin master i am struggling. Is there anything i might be doing wrong ? I just can feel those pins. With spools its fall set and counter rotation and they open. I am asking because i was opening this 5 min master in seconds before i went onto spools

Cheers

[Squelchtone]

Hi,

Most normal Master padlocks are 4 pins. Do you have a photo or link to yours? is it made of laminated plates with a blue or silver plastic bumper at the bottom? do you have the keys to see if the cuts are deep or shallow?

to upload pics, host them somewhere such as http://imgur.com/ or flickr or photobucket, etc then Copy/Paste into your reply here.

Thanks and keep practicing,
Squelchtone

[Slar]

Hi,

Most normal Master padlocks are 4 pins. Do you have a photo or link to yours? is it made of laminated plates with a blue or silver plastic bumper at the bottom? do you have the keys to see if the cuts are deep or shallow?

to upload pics, host them somewhere such as http://imgur.com/ or flickr or photobucket, etc then Copy/Paste into your reply here.

Thanks and keep practicing,
Squelchtone

Sorry forgot to mention its called excel in EU (Magnum in US). Its peace of piss but after i started playing with spools which i love i am struggling with this one. no3 4 pin is not a big deal and one of those excel 4 pin too.

Link for it.
http://www.masterlock.eu/apps/utilities/img.jsp?i=MLEU_CATEGORY_34465_MLEU_m15.jpg&w=600&u=3&cs=1

[cj101]

A medium to high quality lock with only 'normal' pins can be much harder to pick than a low-medium (and even high) quality lock with lots of spools and one normal pins. I made the same experience with Abus euro cylinder locks and some cheaper versions from the hardware store as well.

Here is the reason:
If you pick a lock with almost every driver pin a spool, you rake one or two seconds, and the plug already rotates a rather fair amount. Now, with this rotation, it is almost impossible, to overset any pins. You can pick (I made this experience especially in Abus locks with 4 spools) now each pin one by one and as there are plenty of other unset spools left, the plug will instantly rotate a fair amount again, if you set a spool.

In a better lock with only normal pins, the plug rotates only a very small amount, making it much much easier to overset a pin, in which case you have to release tension and loose other pins as well. I had a very difficult to pick Kale lock with only standard pins, which is much harder to pick than the Abus locks with 4 spools and one normal pin!
Here's my advice;
Try to pick these locks with less pressure on your picking tools and try to feel the 'click' when you have a pin set at the shearline.
My lock had also beveled driver pins. So you had to set each pin multiple times. I didn't suffice to set each pin one. Recheck them often and give very little pressure on your pick. Otherwise you might loose the other pins.

Furthermore, also try raking with light pressure (to not overset your pins). Check afterwards each pin with very light pressure.
For me, this most often helps.

[Picking_Newb]

I had this same issue when I first started picking. After I progressed from my master lock #3 to kwikset and schlage deadbolt cores, I tried going back a month later.

I think what it ends up being is purely muscle memory. You pick one or two locks so often that your muscle and brain think that is how all locks should be picked.

I eventually figured out what I was doing wrong with the master lock and can open it any time I want.

My solution was getting a wider variety of locks and trying not to pick the same one too often, because after all, no two locks are the same.

Hope this helps.

[Valdo]

I had this same issue when I first started picking. After I progressed from my master lock #3 to kwikset and schlage deadbolt cores, I tried going back a month later.

I think what it ends up being is purely muscle memory. You pick one or two locks so often that your muscle and brain think that is how all locks should be picked.

I eventually figured out what I was doing wrong with the master lock and can open it any time I want.

My solution was getting a wider variety of locks and trying not to pick the same one too often, because after all, no two locks are the same.

Hope this helps.

I'll add to this that, more than having a variety of locks, try also to not pick "automatically", that it to say, move your picks until the lock opens, try to analyse every sensation you get, try exercises, try to identify the binder pin, etc...

[GWiens2001]

And pay attention to tension. Some locks want a lot of tension (American 747 has a return spring from ...), while some locks want almost no tension at all. Some need varying tension (LSDA locks).

Gordon

[Slar]

Thanks lads for good advice. It was just driving me mad because i was opening it in seconds and then started to struggle. Might be something to do with my southord pick as most hooks are broken by my son having a go on a master lock and the only one i have left is the thick one. Sparrows are on the way but in the meantime i will keep going with that master lock. Once again Thanks for advice

Sebastian

[nite0wl]

The important thing is to keep at it. A family member asked me to help them out with a rekey job (they replaced their front door and threw away the old keys but forgot about the back door). I spent a month doing nothing but picking and disassembling the same model of cheap Kwikset latch and deadbolt set they had (to the point I could pick, gut, and disassemble, rekey, and install them nearly blindfolded), when I went back to my usual collection of Abus, Yale, and Corbin cylinders it felt like I was back to where I had started years ago.
Each type of lock, and each type of pin, has it's own quirks and unique feeling, maintaining your familiarity with those sensations and remembering how to interpret them and react with your tools is the essential skill you develop with your practice.

Of course the condition of your tools plays a part as well. Some tools will keep working right up to the moment they snap in half while others will slowly and subtly change over time as they wear down. I had a fairly new Peterson Bogie suddenly snap into pieces in a Master Lock #3 with no sign of strain while one of my flat-tip hooks slowly assumed the perfect shape to jiggle certain locks open in seconds. A severely bent or worn tool will definitely hinder you in attempting to pick the same lock they had made mincemeat out of when they were new but they might find a new use in something you previously struggled with or could not find the right tool for (I have a badly deformed SouthOrd hook which eventually became an excellent handcuff pick when it was damaged).

At the end of the day, keep the fundamental skills fresh and keep trying new locks.