Impressioning question - Is this a dumb idea ?

[Squelchtone]

My username should actually be, "cantimpression4s**t" because I have never successfully impressioned any key for anything, unless you count the ocasional working key I get from using the Determinator automotive tools. It frustrates the living daylights out of me because I have tried and tried, with many different locks and had nothing but failure.
A while back someone gave me an old Corbin padlock and I would like to impression a key for it now. The WD40 I sprayed in there when I first got the thing surely isn't going to help me. ( according to what I have read ) So my potentially stupid idea is to spray brake cleaner in the lock to degrease it. Will that help me make and see marks, or is it just a silly idea ?

[billdeserthills]

That will work fine, I have sprayed brake cleaner myself, to get rid of wd-40 in locks I want to impression. You hafta let it dry though, won't take long.
Why not try to impression a wafer tumbler lock first? That corbin is not an easy lock to impression. One thing about impressioning that I'm sure you are
aware of is it can be very frustrating. There is no point in frustrating yourself when You are just starting out. I always start trainees on a nice easy wafer
cam lock & save the tougher stuff for later. You cannot force excellence in impressioning, better to take your time and not get all fooey on it.

[cheerIO]

Why not try to impression a wafer tumbler lock first? That corbin is not an easy lock to impression.

What billdeserthills said. Every Corbin lock I've had so far has been really well made. Very smooth with tight tolerances, not a good starting point for impressioning.

A wafer lock is the way to go in the beginning. Much much easier to see the marks than from pins. I started out on a cash box with a cam lock and a file cabinet lock. Those taught me a lot.

Actually I tried to start out on a couple of pin tumbler padlocks and blew through 20 keys until I decided to learn at a normal pace and picked up the wafer locks.

[Pintickler]

I do appreciate those tips guys. Wafer locks kick my butt too though. I could make more money and save a lot of time if I was able to impression automotive locks. I'm embarrassed to say this, but even the little 5 wafer cam locks that take an Illco EZ Y11 key confound me.

[YouLuckyFox]

A warded master is fun and easy to impression, but it's not the same as picking a pin tumbler lock. For beginner impressioners, with pin tumbler locks I recommend starting with just one pin stack and slowly adding more pin stacks until you are at 5 pins (just like the Mark Tobias / Digital Blue exercise.) That's how I learned.

[Pintickler]

A warded master is fun and easy to impression, but it's not the same as picking a pin tumbler lock. For beginner impressioners, with pin tumbler locks I recommend starting with just one pin stack and slowly adding more pin stacks until you are at 5 pins (just like the Mark Tobias / Digital Blue exercise.) That's how I learned.

I'm gonna try that 1 pin stack at a time exercise. Do you think a schlage deadbolt would be a good lock to do it with ? Does it make any difference which chamber I put the one set of pins in ?

[GWiens2001]

Schlage would be a good choice to start with if you are going to do the progressive pinning exercise. Don't think it will make a lot of difference where you put the pins, except that in the middle of the key there is less movement of the key, so it may leave less of a mark. Note how I say it may leave less of a mark. Each lock is a bit different.

Gordon

[YouLuckyFox]

Schlage would be a good choice to start with if you are going to do the progressive pinning exercise. Don't think it will make a lot of difference where you put the pins, except that in the middle of the key there is less movement of the key, so it may leave less of a mark. Note how I say it may leave less of a mark. Each lock is a bit different.

Gordon

Agreed, each lock is going to be different. With regard to where you put the first pin, I guess a physicist would tell us that there would be minute differences, but I don't feel they would be significant enough for us to notice and I have not observed otherwise in my impressioning. The only point I will make is that when I have impressioned with certain keyways, the pin that is closest to the tip of the keyblank can sometimes make a hard to read impression mark. In other words, just where my KW1 keyblank starts to taper-down at the end, my impression mark sometimes seems to be right on the edge of the taper, as I believe Gordon referred to here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49500&p=417987&hilit=+foil#p417987 (sorry if that's not what you were referring to Gordon, I don't like to misplace quotes, just wanted to give you credit .) Take from this what you will, you may want to start with this chamber first just to get it out of the way, or leave it for the end.

I'm gonna try that 1 pin stack at a time exercise. Do you think a schlage deadbolt would be a good lock to do it with ? Does it make any difference which chamber I put the one set of pins in ?

Also keep in mind that if you have a pointed driver pin, it will make a different mark than a chamfered driver pin, so have fun trying it out with both types. The only other point I'll make is that unlike progressive picking where you can just reset the lock and add another pin-stack and pick it anew, you can't reset your keyblank after you successfully impression: you are left with a blank that has been filed down. For this reason, I'd say get the most out of this exercise:

First, I'd recommend you start by loading a single pin chamber with the shallowest pin depth you can. Honestly, when I started out I couldn't even read a mark until I had filed off the base layer from the blank, so feel free to file to the shallowest depth if you still can't see any marks, it'll get easier as you go deeper. Next I would load that same pin-chamber with the next deepest depth and impression again. Continue to impression and load the next depth until you feel comfortable reading marks or have gone all the way down. You'll notice that marks get more prominent the deeper you go. For the rest of the keyblank, I'd recommend next loading a new pin chamber to a shallow-to-medium depth. Feel free to empty the first chamber just so your mind will not play tricks on you if you have trouble reading marks. Once you impression this new chamber, make the pin chamber you just deeper and add a new pin chamber that is shallow-to-medium depth. I think you'll figure it out from there. Please post of any success you have! If this doesn't make sense, I apologize, this is just what worked best for me as I started out!

[billdeserthills]

Pintickler are you using a round #4 cut file to impression with? Folks mainly complain they can't see the marks, you need to be able to make your
cuts very smoothly, leaving a polished finish, to better see the marks. I have even heard folks using 600 or higher grit sandpaper and polishing the key, after using their
coarse file. Also if you haven't tried a ten power magnifying glass along with a bright
light You might be surprised at the marks you are missing

[MrAnybody]

In addition to all the great advice the guys above me have given, I'm wondering if a couple of vids I did as an Intro to Impressioning would help. Maybe there's a few tips in there to help you out.

They're intended for a beginner to that sort of thing, and there could have been a lot more covered.

[Pintickler]

Pintickler are you using a round #4 cut file to impression with? Folks mainly complain they can't see the marks, you need to be able to make your
cuts very smoothly, leaving a polished finish, to better see the marks. I have even heard folks using 600 or higher grit sandpaper and polishing the key, after using their
coarse file. Also if you haven't tried a ten power magnifying glass along with a bright
light You might be surprise at the marks you are missing

Yes, I am using a #4 "rat tail" file, and my problem IS that I can't see marks. Sometimes I do, but it never seems to get me where I want to be before I break a key off in the lock.

[billdeserthills]

One thing my Dad always repeated to me was the file needed to be absolutely perpendicular to the key. That way the file marks left are a flat, shiny surface. In lieu of you practicing more to keep your filing perfect you can sharpen the key edge to a "razor edge" make the part pushing the pins be thinner than the pin or wafer is and I know you will get a mark. My Dad would Never sell the first key anyhow, it was expected to look messy

Part of tearing the head off is the frustration of knowing things should be working and yet aren't. Back when that was a problem for me I got a pair of vicegrips #4LN.
You should know there is never a need to put head sheering pressure to get a mark. Just bind the key, lift it several times and bind again, press down several times
Sometimes I seem to get better marks turning the cylinder in a direction it wouldn't ever open in, so I turn the key to both left & right & up and down to get the best
chance of a good mark. When looking for the marks I almost find it easier to look for the shadow the mark will make. Try the magnifying glass and with the other hand
tilt the key back & forth slowly.

[Pintickler]

In addition to all the great advice the guys above me have given, I'm wondering if a couple of vids I did as an Intro to Impressioning would help. Maybe there's a few tips in there to help you out.

They're intended for a beginner to that sort of thing, and there could have been a lot more covered.

Those videos are just great. Thank you very very much !