Sargent & Greenleaf wheel pack

[BobPC]

I have a Sargent & Greenleaf Group 2, R6714 series combination lock in a Johnson Pacific Safe. It is open but I do not know the combination. In trying to learn the combination I took the door off so that the door was easier to handle. I have discovered that one combination in one position (on edge) works while if I lay the door flat it does not work. In looking closely at the wheels in the wheel pack sometimes they don't turn when they should and they look out of alignment (crooked to each other). I think that it is possible that there is to much wear or the wheel pack is out of order or inverted (like not 1, 2, & 3 but 1, 3, & 2). I am hoping that someone can tell me the proper order and the correct upside. I can't find this detail anywhere on the internet and S&G doesn't post it on their site. The safe has only one spline site on the shaft unlike the 6730 which has the 4 options. If I can't get reliable functioning I will need to purchase a new body or a new wheel pack. The up side of a new body is no wear. The down side is that the tongue that connects to the latch is rounded and has a hole in it and I would have to swap the old one into the new body. Another question to help with would be is the tongue the same size where it goes through the body. Thank you for any help you can give me.

BobPC

[femurat]

The fact that the combination works only if the door is in the correct position suggests that it's a gravity fence lock and not a spring loaded lock. Or the spring may be broken...

Could you please post some pictures of said lock? Take them from different angles so we can see it well. Then you can upload them on photobucket or similar free hosting sites and link them here.

Cheers

EDIT: I moved the thread under "This Old Safe" because it makes more sense.

[bitbuster]

i believe you have a hand change 6714 and it is mounted right-handed. there are washers between each wheel and these washers must be bent just slightly to give them friction. if they are flat they need to be bent. also, femurat is spot on saying the spring may be broken.
the 'tongue' to which you refer is called the nose. the 'latch' is the lever. you also mention there is a hole in the nose. there should be a small piece of metal sticking out from the hole that is called the fence. the fence drops into the wheel-pack after it is lined up correctly and at the same time the nose drops in the drive wheel.

[BobPC]

Hi bitbuster & femurat
I will send pictures as soon as I determine how to do it. I would like to send them from my phone but I can send them to my computer them to Lock Picking 101.

The tongue and latch the I am referring to go outside the body of the lock then through the safe door and on into the safe wall. This will become clear as soon as I can send pictures. The nose and lever are both inside the body of the lock. The lever does have a spring to pull the fence into the gate when it is in the proper position.

As soon as I can get pictures to you discussion will become easier.

BobPC

[BobPC]

I am attempting to send "safe" pictures. I am only sending three so I can get feedback on how it worked if at all. Should I get lucky and the pictures arrive I can disassemble the wheel pack for a closer look. I can also use a camera for better quality if the phone pictures are lacking.

The pictures should be found at

http://tinypic.com/4dum51qe

BobPC

[billdeserthills]

I'm getting an "Access Denied" message, so your pics may not have made it

[Mikeh727]

I'm getting the same thing.

You might have to go to the hosting site and change your permissions to let anyone view the pictures.

-Mike

[BobPC]

I changed the viewing option to public. See if that makes the pictures view-able.

http://tinypic.com/4dum51qe

BobPC

[GWiens2001]

That is a key change lock.

The spline key is not fully installed, and it looks like the spindle is not fully threaded into the drive cam. That allows the drive cam to shift a little. When the door flat on the table, the cam is dropping down just enough to prevent the flys from connecting with the flys on the wheels.

Remove the spline key and screw the dial in another full turn or two to take up the slack. It should not turn tightly, but it does need to have no extra slop in movement. If you can not get one full turn of the spindle, you will need to remove the drive cam, pull out the dial and spindle, remove the lock, and reinstall the lock with shims (thin washers) between the lock body and the door. That will allow the spindle to fit correctly.

Good luck, and keep us informed!

Gordon

[bitbuster]

gordon is correct. just to show you how safe makers throw you a curve is that this particular door 'usually' has an S&G 6709. it may have been changed to the R6714 sometime.
johnson-pacific was purchased by meilink which was later purchased by fire king.

[billdeserthills]

Those are some sweet antique wheels you have there too, you won't be seeing a set of new brass wheels anywhere, but I'm sure the new composite wheels are still the same diameter
Did You check that fence spring? You can see a little piece of it wrapping over the fence, but the rest of it is hidden underneath where the lever screws onto the bolt.

[BobPC]

femurat, bitbuster or anyone else who can help.

I just wrote a long post about my lock. I clicked on "save" thinking that I could retrieve it to add to it but it seems to have disappeared and I can't see how to retrieve it. Please tell me that it is retrievable.

BobPC

[femurat]

Just click reply to the thread and then a "Load" button will appear under the text box. Hit that and the message will be loaded again. Don't forget to hit "submit" this time

[BobPC]

femurat
I went to This Old Safe then clicked Sargent & Greenleaf wheel pack then clicked on post a reply. After doing this I do not see a load button. All I see under the text block is "Save" "Preview" "Submit" then lower "Options" with 5 check boxes.

BobPC

[Squelchtone]

femurat
I went to This Old Safe then clicked Sargent & Greenleaf wheel pack then clicked on post a reply. After doing this I do not see a load button. All I see under the text block is "Save" "Preview" "Submit" then lower "Options" with 5 check boxes.

BobPC

BobPC click here to see what you Saved in your drafts folder ucp.php?i=main&mode=drafts

You'll find what you were typing in there, in order to post it in this thread select all the text, Copy it and then come back to this thread hit Reply and Paste it into the body and then use Submit.

Squelchtone