Some general questions

[Snowblind]

Hello, I'm a longtime lurker of the forums but I have a few questions I can't quite figure or articulate with a google query.

What's the best practice for picking corroded locks? Some locks I work on have plugs that severely bind, to where you ease tension off to poke at a security pin, but the plug sticks exactly where it's at, and the plug does not turn when you press on the security pin, even when I let off the wrench entirely. So I end up manually turning it back which of course, resets all the pins. I was struggling for like an hour the other day on a tpe of padlock I typically have no trouble with that was doing this and nothing I tried worked. I oiled the inside, which loosened the pins, but the plug still stuck.

Just out of curiosity, automotive locks are different then regular wafer locks in some way, right? I'm under the impression they cannot be opened with typical lockpicking techniques but I'm unsure why.

Those aluminum-bodied versions of the Master Lock No 575... I purchased a couple and when I picked them open, the plug kinda grinds and when I closed it again it will not open even with the key. Happens everytime with these locks. What happened here? A pin being turned sideways? These are the only model of lock that has done this for me and they do it very consistently.

Also, any advice on a type of conventional, but high-end pin and tumbler lock to test my skills on and where to purchase one? I'm in the USA. I bought an Abus padlock and a rather expensive Schlage deadbolt advertised as being it's highest security rating and both were rather underwhelming and I picked them on the first try. Not really interested in defeating things with side-bars and whatnot.

Thanks in advance.

[cheerIO]

I have free'd a couple stuck up plugs by soaking them with WD40. The last one I shot a bunch of PB blaster down the keyway worked the plug back and forth for about 30 seconds which free'd the plug a little. Then I put it in a vise, shot some more PB down there, and let it sit overnight. Worked the plug back and forth the next day and then opened it. After you get it open, be sure to disassemble and clean thoroughly before putting it back together. Some people here use brake kleener to flush a lock of junk and old lubricants that may gum up a lock also.

I have a Master 570 that is really gritty. I think the internal components rusted in it. I have two others that work fine. I don't like them cause you can't disassemble them non-destructively.

A good, tough lock that will teach you a lot is an American Padlock. Get an 1100 or 1300 series. They have serrated and sometimes spool pins. They take a light touch and are easy to disassemble and re-pin and you can add another stack making it a 6 pin. I recommend a 1305, they are a little easier to hold.

Picking an Abus and a Schlage are no easy feat! I have an Abus 65/50 that is harder than any of my Americans. And Schlages are a pain in a lot of peoples butts most of the time. Good work on that. Hit up a Re-Store in your area and buy some other locks for cheap and gut them so you can repin things to mix it up.

[Snowblind]

Thanks for the advice. I have attempted American 5200 series locks before and I've never had much luck opening them. They don't 'feel right' and they seem to be nothing but serrated pins. I was going to ask about them, since they're a type I can't consistently pick, but I see from older posts here it's not just me that has trouble with them and I was correct in my suspicions they had serrated pins and they're just hard to pick. Also, imo, not much fun to work on since the feedback and feel is all wrong with those locks somehow.

I'l try brake cleaner and WD-40. I've also considered smacking the binding lock with a hammer. I like to think it'd loosen the plug and knock loose whatever grit or corrosion is in there and it might be satisfying to beat the thing up after my 100th failed attempt on it, heh.

I was disappointed with the Schlage, it was expensive, too! The Abus was one of their new aluminum body body 'titalium' numbers, can't recall the model number. I try to pick it now and it takes like 20 minutes of absentminded effort to open it sometimes. Fun lock with all the spools in them.

Yup, I quit buying the Masterlock 570's because picking them open seems to ruin the locks and I can't take them apart to figure out what went wrong and I just haven't been curious enough about it to try and cut it apart.

Good call with the Re-Store, I go there to buy books.

[KPick]

Thanks for the advice. I have attempted American 5200 series locks before and I've never had much luck opening them. They don't 'feel right' and they seem to be nothing but serrated pins. I was going to ask about them, since they're a type I can't consistently pick, but I see from older posts here it's not just me that has trouble with them and I was correct in my suspicions they had serrated pins and they're just hard to pick. Also, imo, not much fun to work on since the feedback and feel is all wrong with those locks somehow.

I'l try brake cleaner and WD-40. I've also considered smacking the binding lock with a hammer. I like to think it'd loosen the plug and knock loose whatever grit or corrosion is in there and it might be satisfying to beat the thing up after my 100th failed attempt on it, heh.

I was disappointed with the Schlage, it was expensive, too! The Abus was one of their new aluminum body body 'titalium' numbers, can't recall the model number. I try to pick it now and it takes like 20 minutes of absentminded effort to open it sometimes. Fun lock with all the spools in them.

Yup, I quit buying the Master lock 570's because picking them open seems to ruin the locks and I can't take them apart to figure out what went wrong and I just haven't been curious enough about it to try and cut it apart.

Good call with the Re-Store, I go there to buy books.

You will eventually master the American lock. Lock-picking is like karate; to get a blackbelt, you have to practice constantly and to get very good, you have to practice every day. Not everyone gets the whole serrated thing down in the same time frame, but it takes time due to the lack of feel one has on their fingers. After some time, you will eventually be able to distinguish and differentiate the ticks and tacks of serrated pins. When you get that down, do one pick stack at a time and change the key pin order so you know how to get a good feel for them.

Once you practice enough, your finger will be embellished with a small black ring of WD-40 and dust, and you will have earned your black ring.... only those who have mastered lock-picking can wear this.

[Raymond]

One answer to picking the plug that will not return on its own is to use a turning tool that is very thick. It must almost wedge in place but then you have absolute control. If you back up a little to clear a spool it will be more responsive. Falle style tools can also give you better control.

[nite0wl]

What's the best practice for picking corroded locks? Some locks I work on have plugs that severely bind, to where you ease tension off to poke at a security pin, but the plug sticks exactly where it's at, and the plug does not turn when you press on the security pin, even when I let off the wrench entirely. So I end up manually turning it back which of course, resets all the pins. I was struggling for like an hour the other day on a tpe of padlock I typically have no trouble with that was doing this and nothing I tried worked. I oiled the inside, which loosened the pins, but the plug still stuck.

My default method is to bathe them in WD-40 (quite literally bathe them). Start by using the straw to force the WD-40 into the interior of the lock (this should result in black/grey/brown runoff on a dirty/corroded lock) give it a few minutes and try to work the lock with the key or your tools, if this isn't enough more involved methods that can result in aesthetic damage (if you aren't careful) are usually required. For the long term once you get them cleaned up and working, be careful to flush out all of the WD-40 and thoroughly dry all parts of the lock before applying lock-specific lubricants.

Those aluminum-bodied versions of the Master Lock No 575... I purchased a couple and when I picked them open, the plug kinda grinds and when I closed it again it will not open even with the key. Happens everytime with these locks. What happened here? A pin being turned sideways? These are the only model of lock that has done this for me and they do it very consistently.

I have never had this particular problem with my 570 (I have always found tensioning it to work past the security pins surprisingly challenging). It sounds like you may have an issue with slipped springs or pins. Usually if a pin 'flips' on its side and binds it will prevent the key from entering the lock but a small key pin dropping out of the chamber can cause the spring to become the binding element and those will just unwind into the gap between the plug and the body which creates a nasty grinding sensation.

Also, any advice on a type of conventional, but high-end pin and tumbler lock to test my skills on and where to purchase one? I'm in the USA. I bought an Abus padlock and a rather expensive Schlage deadbolt advertised as being it's highest security rating and both were rather underwhelming and I picked them on the first try. Not really interested in defeating things with side-bars and whatnot.

Until you get into Schlage's residential products are generally disappointing, their commercial/institutional lines like the Everest present a significant challenge and can be found on places like Ebay. Abus is a great brand and can be found at competitive prices in the US. Ultimately most of the really cool and fun stuff will cost a lot at retail or can only be found (for the individual buyer) on places like Ebay or other second-hand sources.

[Snowblind]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I'll be sure to keep a can of WD-40 handy, I've used WD-40 before for binding pins the last time I was asked to open a corroded lock. I wasn't sure if it was just me being resourceful or desperate or it was the typical best practice for the job. Resourceful and desperate more like was my use of motor oil from a dipstick on my last corroded, dirty lock, hehe.

I dunno what else to say about the 570. I believe the spring enters the keyway somehow the last couple of them I've picked, judging by the squishy thing I end up poking at toward the back. I dunno if this is some Masterlock secret design feature to cause all kinds of forensic evidence or something, but at the same time, I've never noticed pins rattling around and while it never prevented me from picking the lock, it prevented the key and picking from working after I closed it. My theory is it was some batch using some kind of bump-stop pin that I jostled into rendering the lock useless. Idk.

Yes, I have a Schlage residential dead-bolt. The highest high-end one they make! It was a joke. I'm not real suavy on commerical locks, I tried a Best commercial deadbolt and it believe it had something like 7 pins and nothing I tried worked, but I quit pretty soon after I tried because I suspected it might be master-keyed and really didn't want to be responsible for ruining the lock.

Also, I agree, KPick, it's a lot like martial arts! You only get better through practice and sometimes having someone demonstrate to you that a particular technique can be done.

[deralian]

I've always had good luck cleaning locks out with wd40. Eben my padlock that sits out in the weather and rain works after a little lubrication. Triflow is better if you don't mind the extra $ and can buy it

[nite0wl]

WD-40 makes a good first step in old and corroded locks it is not recommended for long term use in dirty conditions or heavy use (WD-40 remains liquid for a long time which will trap dust and debris). When a lock cannot be opened because of small debris, dirt, or corrosion, WD-40 is the way to go because of it's mild solvent properties, once you get the lock working you can always do a more through cleaning, wash off the WD-40 and lubricate the lock with graphite, Tri-Flow, or something else appropriate to it's environment.

If your 570 is in operable, you have a good excuse to do some destructive disassembly to see exactly what went wrong with it. It might make a cool teardown.

I'm not real suavy on commerical locks, I tried a Best commercial deadbolt and it believe it had something like 7 pins and nothing I tried worked, but I quit pretty soon after I tried because I suspected it might be master-keyed and really didn't want to be responsible for ruining the lock.

Was that possibly a BEST SFIC? If so, yes those will be tricky they have two separate shearlines and each pin stack has a minimum of three pins (key pin, build-up pin, driver pin) and each shearline can be mastered. One shearline allows the plug to rotate freely while the other allows the retaining sleeve to rotate a small amount (enough to withdraw the retaining tab). These shearlines are completely separate and if the pins are not all set at the same shearline it won't open. These locks work in essentially the same way as "Master Ring" systems. They are quite difficult not just because of the separated shear lines but because the tolerances are usually quite tight, second hand cylinders have often been repinned several times which can create burring on the lips of the chambers and debris in the plug/sleeve/body gaps.