Commercial Storefront doors

[DOORDOCTOR]

Have to share a laugh about an aluminum store front door. I had just finished changing out the two cylinders on a door when the "responsible' person came over to talk. He explained that the door drags because the glass had been broken out and repaired twice. It was obvious that the door was no longer square. I explained that the door needed to be squared and braced before adjusting the pivot hinges. He immediately lifted up on the opening edge of the door which took it completely off the pivot. So, there he was holding the door, connected only by the closer arm, with a really stupid expression on his face. I wanted to start laughing and walk away but thought mercy was the better response. Since I was working for a third party service provider I could only help him get it back in place and not actually do the adjustments. I had to leave him with the correct wording to call for another service order. Helpful customers are such a blessing to our business.

hehe, sounds like that the person didn't completely understand how to adjust the pivots of his door and you were called to come look at it after his attempts all failed

helpful people can be a good and a bad, depending on if the person helping knows what they are getting into,

I often get one who will actually attempt to take apart closer to try repair something then mess it up by using sandpaper to clean off the pinion shaft (tarnish from o-ring or oil) then reassemble it to find out OOPS, using sandpaper to clean tarnish off the pinion shaft only does is ruins it even further and closer leaks when put back together.

another I often see is the wording when they ask for help with a closer, one recent one I fixed the user said about some "little man with big ears" when asking for help with how to adjust a potbelly/traditional Sargent 44V closer

"little man with big ears"= the spring tension "pawl" under the arm of the closer that engages to the gear under the arm. and yes, I did get a laugh from reading that one!

many times it's best for the customer to leave the "advanced" skills to the professionals!

[deralian]

I usually don't do door adjustments. I might adjust or replace a closer. As for storefront hinges, I would recommend they call a door company (too many potential problems, and the doors are heavy). As for air pressie issues, I hate those. There is a building we manage that depending on the time of year has howling air difference that whistles past the door. There is an ADO on the door that either won't open or needs to be way cranked up.

[cledry]

They are really easy to service and most standard storefront doors are not heavy at all. We turn down some that are heavy such as the big doors on Apple stores in the malls but storefront doors are easy money and very profitable. A set of pivots generally costs about $20-$25 and we get $250 for an hour's work. We also put on Rotons and do in floor and in header closers. A lot of locksmiths don't like to do this work, so we even get referrals from competitors.

[deralian]

I've serviced an in floor Rixson closer before. It wasn't very fun. Esp if the housing it drops into warps in any way, the clearance is really tight. also much harder to adjust than an lcn surface mount closer.

[DOORDOCTOR]

I've serviced an in floor Rixson closer before. It wasn't very fun. Esp if the housing it drops into warps in any way, the clearance is really tight. also much harder to adjust than an lcn surface mount closer.

one of the closers I have in a personal collection is the #28, extremes in weather can crack or warp the plastic cement case, they went with plastic due to the metal ones over the years of water getting between body and the cement case can rust and "fuse" the closer to the cement case, they believe cycolac(the type of plastic used in them now) nothing will stick to it, so you can easily pry it up and out and nothing stick to the cement case.

as for adjusting, they (the brand) hates it when any end user/owner attempts a spring tension adjustment, due to the high risk of leak if and when the o-ring (which in some is paper and some it's rubber) can slip out of the ledge it's on and get trapped into the spring. this is why the brand does NOT sell the pin spanner wrench or send it with the closers anymore, in today's society its a liability risk, someone adjust it, then turn around and file a lawsuit against ASSA ABLOY/Rixson due to damage or injury,

if it's not the o-ring or gasket slipping out of place under the disk, there is another risk of damage/injury due to the tool used for adjusting the closer, (pin spanner wrench) the tool can slip out of the holes if you do not step on it to hold it down while you turn the tension adjuster and can cause injury if the aluminum disk pops out of the recess it sits in(as most of the "old style" you have to remove all 5 screws to make an adjustment) the "new style" has the slots that allow you to adjust without removing the screws, removal of the screws with the new style all depends on how far you intend to adjust it (alittle or alot) slight adjustment or to bring it down to ADA compliance)

as for my #28, I do have wrench and took the risk of injury/damage and adjusted it to where I want it, I am happy to have mine down to the ADA compliance to make it easier to operate by hand instead of using any "shop arm" (long rail or pole with an arm wedged in end) arrow on disk on mine points at the flat disk hold down screw nearest the valves.

with how their spring is (helical coil torsion spring) alittle goes a long way with winding/unwinding the spring, if you choose to perform spring tension adjustments, be careful with the tool, if scared to perform the spring adjustments, send closer to an authorized repair agency (such as New England Door Closer in W. Springfeild Mass) or the factory for proper adjustment.

alignment tolerances of spindle shaft and the top pivot point(dropping it in the floor for first time) is really strict with the 20,25/27/28 series (and 30/40), as there is no side to side or forward and back adjustment once the cement case is set in floor, (this is one big reason why many glaziers and lock/door guys will choose a Dorma BTS 75v or CR Lawrence if they don't choose to use a Rixson, but yet some instances a Rix is cheaper then the Dorma BTS.

[dll932]

Door closer geometry and adjustments are subtle. For one thing, I have seen plenty of closers that were mounted wrong, for instance, on a standard installation the forearm isn't at a right angle to the door. With parallel arms, the forearm should be like 2 to 3 degrees out from parallel to the door.

As far as adjustments: Some closers have a label saying what screw does what. For the ones that don't, I look up the instructions on the net from my phone. Most have two primary adjustments: Sweep speed (from 90 degrees or more to about the last 8 inches from closed) and latch speed (the last 8 inches). It should take about 7 seconds for a door to come to close and the latch speed should be faster than the sweep (but not so it slams hard). If the closer leaks, it's time for a new one and it will never adjust right. Door closers will be faster in the summer than the winter if there is a great temp difference, otherwise when set up right to begin with, a closer should work for YEARS. Vestibules are tricky: if both doors are open one or both will close faster-you just adjust for the best compromise possible. DO NOT back adjustment screws all the way out-they will blow hydraulic fluid and suck air! Then you have work the arm back and forth while putting power steering fluid in and bleed the air out. Guess how I found that out?

[dll932]

Just my 2c, but if you don't service closers you're leaving money on the table. It's not generally hard to do-I just put two in yesterday on adjacent doors where I work, took maybe 1/2 hour total. All you need in addition to your normal tools is an adjustable square and a stepstool. One thing-if you put one on a metal door, either through-bolt it or drill and tap the door for machine screws-sheet metal screws will put out.

[DOORDOCTOR]

dll932, great tips there about metal doors and closers,


Ill take a guess how you found out about how to refill a closer that leaked out some fluid, you accidentally backed a screw out??? me, not yet, but anymore most closers have staked valves, and you get resistance when you attempt to back a valve out (and valve stops turning)

as for closers bringing in money to locksmiths, I pretty much encouraged a locksmith in Bremen, Germany to start working on closers, I found him on youtube due to a door closer he took apart (the BKS TS-4000)body of it looks similar in a way to the LCN 4040 body) and I commented on the video about door closer teardown, I have no idea how much he charges, but if he hated it I think he would have stopped, he has worked on at least 3 other closers since the BKS, the locksmith's latest one is the GEZE TS-360 (floor closer)that leaked from the cylinder inside and asked for my help on what to do,

[dll932]

I haven't taken a closer apart since the last time I worked on a pot-belly. I just replace them. And yes, I got spurted with hydraulic fluid when the screw popped out! I was lucky there was a an auto garage next to where I was working and power steering fluid worked just fine.

I recently found out some company makes a vent that opens while the door is shutting and closes when it comes shut. It's only for metal doors, IIRC, but someone was thinkin'! No more stack pressure problem!

[DOORDOCTOR]

Hello there dll932, potbellies, they can build up pressure too over the years, (depends on the fluid used in them too) I have a couple that were given to me, the one is a russwin #52 and other is a Corbin 127 (body size C) fortunately I have been lucky with my own closers and not got spurted or "moby dicked" by any of them yet.



ATF/power steering fluid, that is one of few fluids I would recommend when refilling a door closer, I mean if you take it down to even the MSDS sheets of the door closer brands, same specific gravity of some fluids used by the brands, same lubricating properties/flash point and will not eat away at the o-rings or gaskets (rubber or nitrile) only thing difference I can see is maybe 100 degree difference and the color, most closer fluids are clear or amber, so ATF is no difference then the color (red)

ok for use in a closer: Mineral oil, power steering fluid, ATF (automatic tranny fluid) hydraulic bottle jack fluid, 3-in-1 (household sewing machine oil) 2 stroke oil, even canola oil (veggie oil) if in a pinch and something better then nothing.

motor oil, you can, but it may be too thick for the passageways and narrow range of operating temps (freeze it in winter, and it be OK on hot days)

NOT OK in a door closer, water glycol, basically antifreese, reason, if any of you remember the days LCN when they used the red FP fluid, well, it built up pressure like a shaken soda can and will leak from the backcheck valve (yuck!) now a closer leaking that fluid, it looked like a murder scene when it really got nasty looking, perfect for halloween, but not for a medical environment or school where kids can see it, smell it and complain about it (disturbing to look at or the smell)

same for water, it will rust the insides (cast iron and steel parts in there) could end up scoring the surface of the piston and cylinder, and clog the valve with the rust particles as they oxidize on the cylinder wall and piston face.

brake fluid, gasoline that one could build up pressure and feed fuel to the fire if a fire breaks out in the building its located in, and the chemicals in the brake fluid can break down the o-rings and cause it to leak again.

when I recommend a fluid for a closer, I take into consideration where its located and if there are pets/small children around, and if it's one that may be a risk of leaking again, I would recommend mineral oil, that way if a pet or small child licks the puddle or plays near it, the kid/pet only gets is the runs for a day or 2 (mineral oil is a laxative) instead of petroleum distillate poisoning and have to get a trip to a hospital for treatment.


closers..... not always an "open-then-shut-case"

as for that vent your talking about, I think its something made by Ruskin steel products or steelcraft, I forgot the brand/series, but it's been out for at least 2 or 3 years now,

they can help, but that don't mean it will be any help if installed wrong or louvers go the wrong way, then no guarantee the door won't "creep" back open or louvers stay open alittle when door is completely closed, what company did you find makes them dll932?

[dll932]

I couldn't find the self opening/closing vent, but here's another more passive possibility:
http://www.tamtech.com/3-Pack-Perfect-B ... p_106.html
It also occurred to me that a simple letter slot might work:
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/930336 ... OunUEXTBFQ
I know there are slots made for aluminum/glass doors as well.
Finally, there is the "smart closer:"
http://sweets.construction.com/swts_con ... 371924.pdf

[DOORDOCTOR]

I couldn't find the self opening/closing vent, but here's another more passive possibility:
http://www.tamtech.com/3-Pack-Perfect-B ... p_106.html
It also occurred to me that a simple letter slot might work:
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/930336 ... OunUEXTBFQ
I know there are slots made for aluminum/glass doors as well.
Finally, there is the "smart closer:"
http://sweets.construction.com/swts_con ... 371924.pdf

Dll932, I searched for the brands that made the vents, I found like 3 or 4, can't tell them apart anymore with who made what since there's soo many of them out nowadays.

as for the "smart closer" check your inbox/PM's.

[dll932]

Yeah, I wish I could find the link for the self closing vent. It was sort of the same idea as automatic door sweeps that lift when the door opens and drop when the trigger hits the frame. I'll keep looking...it's bugging me.