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American lock comparison?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

American lock comparison?

Postby Comrade627 » 29 Jan 2015 6:30

I suppose I fall under the beginner catagory based on my picked lock list, despite having been going at it since about '09. I guess I just haven't been consistant.
Anyway, how do the American locks stack up against other locks that are frequently a pain to you guys? That's about that level I'm stuck at. I'll get a 5200 here and there, as well as some similar ones but that's about my plateau. I keep trying new techniques and whatnot, just can't seem to advance. 5200's and the like have been giving me show stopping problems for over a year now, so it's not like I'm not trying a lot. I've even gone as far as disassembling 5 of them, amd lining them up with 1 pin, 2 pins, then 3 etc. 3 and sometimes 4 is where I start slowing down with them. A fully pinned 5200... I've been holding some of them for months that I can't crack.
Remember: Pick something every day, no matter how small and insignificant it may be…it helps maintain proficiency.”

SPP purist.
Comrade627
 
Posts: 290
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 10:41
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby cheerIO » 29 Jan 2015 14:11

My suggestion is try something different. Don't get stuck in a rut.

A different lock will teach to you look for different feelings and those feelings may be the ones you are missing in opening this lock.

What is in your 5200's? Are they just spools or also serrated? Have you tried a newer 1100/1300 with the finely serrated pins? It may be time to push your limits a bit to refine the feelings you are looking for. Also the spring on the core will give you different feel than the dead core of a 5200.

I got stuck on 1305's for a while. I started picking an Abus 65/50 with serrated and at least one spool. To me this lock was much harder to pick than any of my Americans. But after a while of picking it consistently, I came back to the Americans and they were dropping left and right.
cheerIO
 
Posts: 301
Joined: 24 Jun 2014 16:21
Location: Florida

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby Comrade627 » 30 Jan 2015 8:11

cheerIO wrote:My suggestion is try something different. Don't get stuck in a rut.

A different lock will teach to you look for different feelings and those feelings may be the ones you are missing in opening this lock.

What is in your 5200's? Are they just spools or also serrated? Have you tried a newer 1100/1300 with the finely serrated pins? It may be time to push your limits a bit to refine the feelings you are looking for. Also the spring on the core will give you different feel than the dead core of a 5200.

I got stuck on 1305's for a while. I started picking an Abus 65/50 with serrated and at least one spool. To me this lock was much harder to pick than any of my Americans. But after a while of picking it consistently, I came back to the Americans and they were dropping left and right.



I'm working on getting this 5200 open again so I can show you what's inside of it. I haven't tried any of the newer ones you'd mentioned due to my location, it's difficult to get a variety of locks here (Okinawa, Japan) but I try to manage with what I have, though it's mostly Master padlocks, American padlocks and the occasional Brinks deadbolt that comes my way.
Remember: Pick something every day, no matter how small and insignificant it may be…it helps maintain proficiency.”

SPP purist.
Comrade627
 
Posts: 290
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 10:41
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby deolslyfox » 25 Feb 2015 20:26

Take the lock apart and look at the pins that are giving you issues. If they are the serrateds, you know that you need to hone your skills in learning the difference between the crunch, set and overset. If they are spools you know you need to learn to recognize counter rotation and what the pin feels like and how the core reacts when you send the spool home.

This may seem like a lot of work, but it will point you in the right direction and save you a lot of frustration over the long haul. You gotta know what's broke before you fix it.

Hope this is helpful.
deolslyfox
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 15 Feb 2015 17:01

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby Comrade627 » 25 Feb 2015 20:29

Yep yep.

Serrated pins still give me a tough time here and there, but I've been using a set pinned with 1,2,3,etc for a while now. I'm gettin' there.
Remember: Pick something every day, no matter how small and insignificant it may be…it helps maintain proficiency.”

SPP purist.
Comrade627
 
Posts: 290
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 10:41
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby deolslyfox » 26 Feb 2015 11:46

American 140s have one security pin in position three. Generally a spool. 150s up the ante to three security pins if memory serves ....

The little aluminum bodied 1105s are a fun pick. They have a mixture of spools and serrated. I just finished off a lot of 5 that I got from ebay. Four were "normal" to pick and one was a real little bear ....

The 5100 / 5200s are my favorites. The quality of the lock is good and there are always enough security pins to keep you on your toes ....

The "boat anchor" 700 runs hot and cold for me. A few months ago I had a couple that were hardly worth the effort. Then I got one that I worked with off and on for a weekbefore I cracked it ....

Working with serrated pins is "a whole 'nother smoke" .... The key is "light tension" and "light pick pressure". When first starting with serrated pins the biggest mistake I find folks making is over-setting. There's often little, if any counter-rotation like there is with a spool. Its more like a "crunch" followed by a "click" which may be a set or a false set.

To beat the serrated pins and to hone your tension / pressure skills, set each serrated pin "one click at a time". This means that you may have to come down the stack 3 - 4 times just to finally set one serrated pin, but you'll learn the skills necessary to deal with them. This is also a good way to help you deal with "spool-rated" (serrated spool) pins. These will give you a couple of clicks or a bit of crunch and the next time you touch it you'll get a good false set just like a regular spool.

The above technique will "slow you down" for a time, but as you develop the "touch" for security pins, you will eventually be able to look at them as easier to pick than the normal pins because of the "feedback" (crunch, click, counter-rotation) provided by the security pins.

Hope this is helpful.
deolslyfox
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 15 Feb 2015 17:01

Re: American lock comparison?

Postby nickmannnxx » 8 Mar 2015 9:30

deolslyfox wrote:American 140s have one security pin in position three. Generally a spool. 150s up the ante to three security pins if memory serves ....

The little aluminum bodied 1105s are a fun pick. They have a mixture of spools and serrated. I just finished off a lot of 5 that I got from ebay. Four were "normal" to pick and one was a real little bear ....

The 5100 / 5200s are my favorites. The quality of the lock is good and there are always enough security pins to keep you on your toes ....

The "boat anchor" 700 runs hot and cold for me. A few months ago I had a couple that were hardly worth the effort. Then I got one that I worked with off and on for a weekbefore I cracked it ....

Working with serrated pins is "a whole 'nother smoke" .... The key is "light tension" and "light pick pressure". When first starting with serrated pins the biggest mistake I find folks making is over-setting. There's often little, if any counter-rotation like there is with a spool. Its more like a "crunch" followed by a "click" which may be a set or a false set.

To beat the serrated pins and to hone your tension / pressure skills, set each serrated pin "one click at a time". This means that you may have to come down the stack 3 - 4 times just to finally set one serrated pin, but you'll learn the skills necessary to deal with them. This is also a good way to help you deal with "spool-rated" (serrated spool) pins. These will give you a couple of clicks or a bit of crunch and the next time you touch it you'll get a good false set just like a regular spool.

The above technique will "slow you down" for a time, but as you develop the "touch" for security pins, you will eventually be able to look at them as easier to pick than the normal pins because of the "feedback" (crunch, click, counter-rotation) provided by the security pins.

Hope this is helpful.


I agree with deolslyfox, if I know im dealing with serrated, I get a single click from any and all pins that will bind. Then I work my way back through them again, trying to get 1 more click. As I work through additional pins bind and eventually I will get a false set (as long as there are spools).

From there (atleast for me) its all easy street. I just go through and check each stack for counter rotation to find the spools. I like spools best for exactly this reason, they talk to you. Push on one and it says, "here I am!".

If at some point you feel that you may have just overset a pin, try to get it to drop back down. Release tension very slowly until just one pin has dropped. Feel around with you pick, if you dropped the one you wanted to great! If not continue releasing tension until the pin that youve overset has fallen. Sometimes

There have been quite a few times where the only thing holding me back was one overset pin. After I release enough tension for a single pin to drop the plug rotates and the lock is open. If Im having trouble with a lock I find it can be more helpful to drop one or two pins then resetting the lock and starting over.

Ive added a lot of skill by picking my variety of American locks. Another even cheaper type of lock I use to practice with are the Master brand lockout locks. The ones with the brightly colored plastic bodies. I picked up a case of 6 of them on ebay for $12. They are all keyed differently (big plus), have 5 pins, and are filled with security pins.

I took a knife and ran around the edge of one of them a few times at the seam. I was then able to pry it open and access the cylinder. Now i can repin this lock anyway I want and even remove pin stacks to make it easier. After its repinned I just wrap a large rubber band around it to keep it together while I pick it.
nickmannnxx
 
Posts: 113
Joined: 20 Nov 2014 3:28
Location: Pennsylvania


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