Replacing vintage Sargent deadbolt

[billdeserthills]

I actually have one of those sargent cylinders, with the square tailpiece in my shop. I bought it new from an old locksmith who retired in the 70's
If You want it and I can find it the charge would be $20 shipped
I don't know the key section though...

Just to be clear, the cylinder has a more conventional rectangular drive piece, and the inside "thumb turn" has a slot for the rectangular drive and a square tailpiece which moves the bolt.

Can you check and see what you have?

My cylinder is 1" overall length, and 1-1/8" in diameter.

If you've got a match I'm in for the $20. In fact, if you can toss a couple of screws in there (one of mine is bent) I can go $25.

I'll see about finding it in the morning, I always wondered what it fit?

bill, is your cylinder's tailpiece the multi section break off to the correct length type or is it the square shaft? The square shaft was for FOX "police style" multi point lock (as far as I know)

In this case a regular series 34 Sargent rim cylinder with lazy tailpiece will work because it mates to the plate the OP has. that plate has a gear drive inside that goes to the square shaft that goes into the lower hole in his door and then actuates the mortised mechanism. (Just making sure we're on the same page here, because it sorta sounds like you might have a cylinder with a square shaft, not the flat break off pre-scored typical rim cylinder tail piece)

here'a s FOX lock taipiece (square shaft) http://www.reisshardware.com/index.php? ... ts_id=4830

here's a normal tailpiece on a rim cylinder: http://guide.alibaba.com/shop/us-lock-u ... 71306.html

OP do you need to have a Sargent cylinder or can it be generic or another brand? I think you just need a 1 inch long rim cylinder with lazy tailpiece. That should be easier to find on ebay or amazon.

Squelchtone[/quote]



Mine has the square shaft, just like the original

[royrogers]

Mine has the square shaft, just like the original

My cylinder doesn't have a square shaft, the square shaft is on the thumb turn. The cylinder had a more conventional rectangular tailpiece.

[billdeserthills]

OP do you need to have a Sargent cylinder or can it be generic or another brand? I think you just need a 1 inch long rim cylinder with lazy tailpiece. That should be easier to find on ebay or amazon.

Squelchtone

The only concern is where the screw holes are located, mine are slightly above center. If they're all like that, a generic or some other brand should be fine.

This sounds like Your next move, then

[Squelchtone]

OP do you need to have a Sargent cylinder or can it be generic or another brand? I think you just need a 1 inch long rim cylinder with lazy tailpiece. That should be easier to find on ebay or amazon.

Squelchtone

The only concern is where the screw holes are located, mine are slightly above center. If they're all like that, a generic or some other brand should be fine.

This sounds like Your next move, then

royrogers, looking at the screw locations on your cylinder, it does looks for some reason like they're higher and wider than normal.. You may want to actually call Sargent's factory in CT and ask them for advice. Send them that photo where you show the cylinder and the thumb turn plate and maybe they'll tell you if a regular rim will fit and if the tailpiece needs to be lazy or just horizontal.

jeffmoss, how do your cylinder's screw hole locations compare to royrogers pic?

best of luck, hope you find some answers,
Squelchtone

[royrogers]

royrogers, looking at the screw locations on your cylinder, it does looks for some reason like they're higher and wider than normal.. You may want to actually call Sargent's factory in CT and ask them for advice. Send them that photo where you show the cylinder and the thumb turn plate and maybe they'll tell you if a regular rim will fit and if the tailpiece needs to be lazy or just horizontal.

jeffmoss, how do your cylinder's screw hole locations compare to royrogers pic?

best of luck, hope you find some answers,
Squelchtone

I think the screw location is pretty typical for Sargent.

[Squelchtone]

royrogers, looking at the screw locations on your cylinder, it does looks for some reason like they're higher and wider than normal.. You may want to actually call Sargent's factory in CT and ask them for advice. Send them that photo where you show the cylinder and the thumb turn plate and maybe they'll tell you if a regular rim will fit and if the tailpiece needs to be lazy or just horizontal.

jeffmoss, how do your cylinder's screw hole locations compare to royrogers pic?

best of luck, hope you find some answers,
Squelchtone

I think the screw location is pretty typical for Sargent.

on that plate that has the slot for the tailpiece and the protructing square shaft that goes into the hole under the cylinder, if you take a flat head screwdriver and put it in that slot and turn it in either direction, does the square shaft turn immediately, or only after you rotate the screwdriver 90/180/360 degrees? I'm wondering if it has the lazy motion built into the gears inside it. (This relates to what the hardware store guy told you about needing the key to be in the lock in order to use the thumb turn)

just curious, thanks
Squelchtone

[jeffmoss26]

royrogers, looking at the screw locations on your cylinder, it does looks for some reason like they're higher and wider than normal.. You may want to actually call Sargent's factory in CT and ask them for advice. Send them that photo where you show the cylinder and the thumb turn plate and maybe they'll tell you if a regular rim will fit and if the tailpiece needs to be lazy or just horizontal.

jeffmoss, how do your cylinder's screw hole locations compare to royrogers pic?

best of luck, hope you find some answers,
Squelchtone

I think the screw location is pretty typical for Sargent.

To quote My Cousin Vinny, the screw locations are IIIIDENTICALL

[nick08037]

royrogers -- I followed the posts here regarding your lock problem and was hoping you could share with us the progress on this, were you able to find a suitable replacement cylinder and tailpiece? or did you need to fit the door with something different? -Nick

[cledry]

Sargent doesn't use the same screw spacing as other rim cylinders, that is typical but you would be using a rim cylinder with its own backing plate so you should be able to use any rim cylinder. You can still buy a new Sargent one. Most locksmiths will have a few laying around. However why not just rebore the door and install a modern deadbolt? I don't even think you will need a scar plate.

This is a time when calling a locksmith would have been better than trying it yourself.

[bjornnrojb]

The placement of the holes may be different on a new rim cylinder, but that shouldn't matter. When you get a rim cylinder it usually comes with break-off screws so you can adjust them to correct length for different door thickness and also it comes with the back plate that you put those screws through. The rim cylinder is screwed onto the door and then you put the rim lock over it so any rim cylinder should work I would imagine, if it is a thicker tailpiece maybe you will have to solder some tailpieces together. Sometimes it is hard to get the placement of the rim lock perfectly over the tailpiece though and it becomes hard to turn the key. You may have to drill different holes to line up with a different rim cylinder, and the holes may be really close to the old holes. You know where this is going, you might have to break out a box of toothpicks, start drilling pilot holes at 30 degree angles, use thicker/longer screws etc to make it work perfectly.