"Should I be concerned about the requirement by Peterson

[Dave55347]

I want to buy the "Flat Five" torsion set from Peterson Manufacturing's web site......

I am NOT a locksmith, and I am NOT a member of the military, and I am NOT a member of the security industry: I am a hobbyist, although I was paid $50 to open an onsite lock box locked with two Master Lock #5 padlocks whose keys were missing. I don't think that qualifies me as a locksmith, although I substituted my services for his.

Peterson Manufacturing has a requirement at the end of their ordering page that specifies certain limitations as to who can actrually order from them.

I have the impression that the disclaimer at Peterson is to PREVENT criminals from ordering from them and that the government does not monitor the actual backgrounds of the Peterson customers. This is the conclusion that I've reached from researching the questions and answers on this forum.

When I e-mailed Ken Peterson, his reply (cryptic? humor?) was "Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...."

Is my conclusion correct? Is this just a way to discourage the criminal element and there is no need for me to have any valid concerns about ordering ? (I live in Minnesota, so I am not concerned about International regulations, just the domestic ones).

What insights can you share ?

Have you ever been contacted by local police or the FBI or any such agency when you ordered lock picking equipment?

Please advise.....

Dave55347

[GWiens2001]

Just place your order. It will not be a problem. They do not verify if you are a locksmith. Some states (including mine) do not even have a locksmith license to verify.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

I betcha You'll be immediately placed on a secret watch list, care of homeland security and I also thought of this;
They're coming to take me away, ha ha. They're coming to take me away
To the funny farm, where life is grand...

Fortunately this forum has tons of info on the making of Your very own tools and it isn't just for the paranoid

D@mmit, Gordon beat me!

[cheerIO]

My suggestion is to just place an online order and see what happens.

And take Ken's advice. Don't ask any questions, not to him and not here.

(don't worry)

[Comrade627]

If the government ends up watching y...

[nick08037]

It is primarily a USPS thing...

For the purpose of this exercise you are a "bona fide locksmith", even in most US jurisdictions that regulate locksmiths said regulations almost never apply to and exempt in-house facilitates locksmith staff and the work that they do.

39 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 39 - POSTAL SERVICE
PART IV - MAIL MATTER
CHAPTER 30 - NONMAILABLE MATTER
Sec. 3002a - Nonmailability of locksmithing devices
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, http://www.gpo.gov
§3002a. Nonmailability of locksmithing devices
(a) Any locksmithing device is nonmailable mail, shall not be carried or delivered by mail, and shall be disposed of as the Postal Service directs, unless such device is mailed to—
(1) a lock manufacturer or distributor;
(2) a bona fide locksmith;
(3) a bona fide repossessor; or
(4) a motor vehicle manufacturer or dealer.
(b) For the purpose of this section, “locksmithing device” means—
(1) a device or tool (other than a key) designed to manipulate the tumblers in a lock into the unlocked position through the keyway of such lock;
(2) a device or tool (other than a key or a device or tool under paragraph (1)) designed for the unauthorized opening or bypassing of a lock or similar security device; and
(3) a device or tool designed for making an impression of a key or similar security device to duplicate such key or device.
(Added Pub. L. 100–690, title VII, §7090(a), Nov. 18, 1988, 102 Stat. 4409.)

If they ship UPS, FedEx or DHL it would not even be a question.

[deolslyfox]

Short answer. No

[billdeserthills]

In some places You should be concerned about having "burglary tools" in your possession, especially when mr policeman with the bad attitude searches Your vehicle and finds them

[nickmannnxx]

The only time my picks ever end up in my car they are accompanied by a large box of locks for picking, 20 padlocks and 30 or so cylinders. Im pretty sure in a situation like this I should be able to prove intent. My girlfriend's uncle is a police officer and told me something that I think relates to carrying picks. A baseball bat in the trunk of a car is a weapon. A baseball bat, baseball glove, balls in a trunk is a bunch of sports equipment.

[Doobner]

I know it’s 5 years later. Not sure how you all feel about resurrected old posts here. The unrelated topic forum that I’m on finds them amusing.

Anyways, my question is simply, “would that be the same case with most all other companies?” I am the US, and I heard that it’s just a postal thing. Maybe I should ask instead, “are there any companies listed in the thread about where to buy your picks that I should be concerned about- or just not bother with?”.

Any more info would be appreciated!

[Squelchtone]

I know it’s 5 years later. Not sure how you all feel about resurrected old posts here. The unrelated topic forum that I’m on finds them amusing.

Anyways, my question is simply, “would that be the same case with most all other companies?” I am the US, and I heard that it’s just a postal thing. Maybe I should ask instead, “are there any companies listed in the thread about where to buy your picks that I should be concerned about- or just not bother with?”.

Any more info would be appreciated!

oof.. We try not to wake up posts from that long ago unless an unanswered question is finally getting circled back to, even then the parties who posted it are often no longer active on the forum.

I think we used to scorn people a lot more for it, but it shows they are Searching before just starting a new thread, so I consider that a good thing. I think threads a year or younger are fair game, anything older, there should be a solid reason to wake the thread up, but that's just my personal opinion and not an official rule.

I looked at your other posts and it seems you are looking to buy a pick set. All these questions and concerns are the same ones a lot of others had over the years and nothing bad ever happened, so just order what you want and wait for it to arrive in the mail. The SWAT team is not gonna be hiding in the mailman's truck ready to jump out on you.

If you do get some lock picks mailed to you, practice the hobby at home on your own practice locks, and don't brag or show off to friends at the local bar (not that you can do that right now anyway) but a lot of people get excited about this new found power and shoot their mouth to the wrong people.

Also, if you are truly concerned, please fill out your profile so we at least know what state or jurisdiction you are in so we can quote you some local laws or someone from your area can chime in with their experience of ordering tools online.

Squelchtone

[Doobner]

Ok, noted on the old posts, all good then. I guess I was thinking it would be better to tack something onto an existing post, rather than maybe start a new one. Different strokes on different forums. I can respect your preferences! Will do my best not to be tacky.

Thanks for the info! I plan to just practice at home anyways.

I don’t know how to add that info to my profile, will look for the instructions here.

But anyways, I am in Minnesota.

[flyingron]

Yes, that's what the USPS rules say. They date back to the sixties. As pointed out in this date of internet ordering and common carriers (not just UPS/FEDEX but even Amazon's own exploited delivery contractors), it's one of the most ignored rules. Lock tools are so small and light that USPS is actually the easiest way to send them. I've never had anybody ask, so I suspect Peterson just put it there to cover their rear (well they said they were a legal place to ship to).

[demux]

I've never had anybody ask, so I suspect Peterson just put it there to cover their rear (well they said they were a legal place to ship to).

Yeah, it's probably one of those things that's only selectively enforced if you're caught doing something else dumb and the Law wants to make an example of you. Sort of how if you kick in the front window on a store, you'll get charged with B&E. If you kick in the front window on a store and have a set of lock picks in your pocket, you'll get charged with B&E and possession of burglary tools.

That said, as others have pointed out, if you do actually work on locks, even just for a private entity (e.g. you're not hanging out a shingle and advertising yourself as a locksmith), you would likely quality as a bona fide in-house locksmith and be technically legal under that rule.