American 1105 padlock - What did I get myself into?

[UnlockingBoredom]

Nick,
I was an IT professional for over 20 years, so when someone came to me and started talking computers and networking I always listened and gave my advice. I loved to encourage people to learn as much as they can about the equipment they were using in they office or their home (computer, switch, router etc..)

I just dont understand why someone would get mad at me because I chose to pick locks to try to keep my hands from stiffening up (they hurt like crazy when I use them but worse if I dont and they stiffen up real bad) I explained why I stared picking locks but he got pretty mad.. oh and when I told him about the machine I saw on one of the defcon videos where it duplicated a key that they wont sell blanks to the public.... he went off and was saying some off color remarks about those kind of people and what should be done to them..

Oh well, I will shop where I find someone friendly and wont where I find people like this guy..
The locksmith I met the other day became a locksmith because of disability after an accident so he was real cool with me because he saw that I have to walk with a cane when I do walk at all.. I cant wait until next week to see what locks he brings, I am hoping to be able to sit with him for a while and talk about what it is he does when not making keys for people at the swapmeet.

Oh, when my 30 days / 30 post are up I will be taking some pictures of some locks I saw in a antique store and posting in the for sale place (not by me of course).. They are the old railroad locks (some with key, some without) way too much money for me but maybe someone here might like them and want to contact the store to purchase them.

[Divinorum]

I'm not saying that the way the guy reacted is right in any way, but try to understand why he reacted this way. For a long long time the art of locksmithing was a tightly kept secret. Locksmiths would not openly talk about how they do what they do. It was all considered trade secrets. The coming of the internet has put a spin on the situation. Take the bump key for example. Bump keys were used by locksmiths for a long time and were kept under wraps pretty well. Then one day the information got out onto the internet and now almost everyone who watches the news knows what a bump key is, can buy one online, and can watch videos on how to use it. The internet also allowed for information to spread about picking, impressioning, re keying etc. All of these were locksmith trade secrets for the most part. Unless you knew a locksmith willing to show you or could find a book and read about it, you couldn't learn the art.

Some locksmiths have been unable to adapt to the changing of the times. They liked that what they did was a secret and think that it should still be. They believe that if you are not a locksmith, you have no place having such knowledge. Granted not all locksmiths are like this but many (especially the old school) are like that. You also have to understand that the locksmiths job revolves around security. People depend on locksmiths for their security and the good locksmiths feel a sense of responsibility towards their clients. Imagine you are a locksmith and you sell a specific lock or restricted keyway and someone came into your shop that you have never had a conversation with in a day in your life and the person starts non-nonchalantly telling you how they can pick the lock you sell or know how to duplicate their restricted key. Would you really take kindly to that? Would you welcome that person with open arms? Would you not be skeptical of that person?

Same goes for IT work. Say you are the Sys Admin at some company and a new employee that you have never seen before starts asking very specific questions pertaining to the security of the company network. Being that your job is to secure said network, are you really going to openly discuss with this new employee the security of your network? Do you really want this person to know the network layout, what firewall you use, what kind of servers you have etc?

Now same situations just slightly different. Say you go into the locksmith shop (playing a little dumb obviously), introduce yourself and strike up a conversation with the guy behind the counter. Pretend you need to buy a lock for something. Ask some questions about why this lock he is showing you is a good lock. Then buy it or something else from him preferably and leave. Come back in a week or two and let him know that your purchase worked out excellent and thank him. Keep coming back over a period of time and show interest in different locks and the ART of locksmithing, not just picking locks or how to break security.

I promise you that this approach will work out much better for you than what you have already tried. I have worked as a locksmith and an IT Admin and I speak here from experience. I had clients as the locksmith shop that I knew and felt comfortable with and would openly talk to them about almost anything. Then there were random people who would come in and ask strange questions (similar to yours) that I would not engage in specific conversation with. Likewise with the IT job. If i trusted someone and had a relationship with them I would have no issue talking specifics with them. If I didn't know them very well I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking about certain things. As a former IT guy yourself you should be familiar with social engineering I hope. Apply a little social engineering on your end. Its all about your approach and how you present yourself. You can find many threads on here about people who have had bad experiences with locksmiths. The common thread is that people come out and upfront tell the locksmith hey i like to pick locks. The reception by the locksmith is 99% of the time always the same. Try a different approach and I promise that you will receive a warmer welcome next time.

[UnlockingBoredom]

I guess I wasnt thinking of it as to how the locksmith would think... I guess maybe I set up the bad interaction by saying what I did.
I will have to start thinking of it differently when dealing with the local smiths, I guess I have been getting too excited about what I can now do that I think the locksmith should be more open, but like you said.. he doesnt know me and I guess I did tell him that his most secure key can be duplicated by just about anyone. Yeah I guess I was at fault on that one... LOL

I have severe fibromyalgia and take a lot of meds that make it hard to think a lot of the time so I guess I will have to just talk here instead of to a local smith... I just wanted some interaction with someone who does the same thing and knows more then me.. I spend way too much time in doors with only my wife to talk to and she is happy I am at least doing something to combat my boredom and depression but she doesnt know what a keypin is or what a security pin does..

Well it sucks for you guys as I will be on here more asking questions or just rambling on (sorry for that, its the meds I swear! )

UnlockingBoredom

[Divinorum]

Hey man no worries. I'm sure everyone is happy to have you here as am I. Take it easy on the locksmiths and give them a chance to warm up to you and you can make some good aqaintenances this way. In the mean time the forum is an excellent source of conversation and education

[deolslyfox]

I just knocked off an 1105 today. 3 spools and 2 serrated.

Security pins like light tension. I use TOK tension on American locks.

Watch out for long pins in the front. You can easily overset them when working the back pins.

Look at the key bitting to get an idea of the pin lengths.

Hope this is helpful.

[UnlockingBoredom]

I picked the old 1105 to death and went out and bought a 1205, I just put 6 pins in it with 3 spools and 3 Serrated and boy am I having an issue picking it now.... I put a spool all the way at the back and made the lock go high, low, high, low, high, low (8,3,6,4,7,3) and every time I get a false set, I get the pin to finally go up and it drops all the other pins back down and I start over...lol

Oh well, its hours of frustration while watching TV so no biggie.

I purchased a new 1105 and loaded it up with all regular pins and put the security pins in the box with it for marman in Norway. I also put in a Schlage with all normal pins and a set of security pins for it as well. I want to trade for his generic Bitlema lock with the christmas tree pins.. Just waiting for tomorrow to send it off.