Schlage c keyway is getting too easy. What's next?

[south town ninja]

So, I was having problems with the schlage C keyway, but have just about mastered it. In about a week, i will be able to pick it , upside down and blind folded with spool drivers all the way across the bible. What is my next challenge? I stopped by the local lock shop and they suggested an American Lock Company padlock model 700 series, which I know has a tiny keyway and serrated driver(s). Is this a good next step? If I do decide to try to tackle this lock next, do i need special tools to handle the tiny keyway/tiny pins?

[deolslyfox]

I like working with American locks.

The 700 series has a MONSTER of a spring. Sometimes you've picked the lock and can't tell it. If your tension wrench is too thin you can literally bend it trying to open the lock once its picked. (No exaggeration).

I'd recommend that you look at an 1100 series or a 5000 series. They are 5 pins with a mix of serrated and spools. They are not expensive. You can find 'em on ebay for pennies on the dollar. Easy to work on and repin. Enough of a challenge to keep you interested and learning, and you can easily repin as you go along.

You can pick up already pinned cores for $4.00 (APTC12) that are chock full of security pins if you don't want to do the repin yourself. Check MrLock.com.

You can pick 'em with a .025" pick if its been polished. Light, top of the keyway tension, light pick pressure is the "secret" to most American locks. Practice is the "real secret".

I'd stay away from the 700 until you have a few more locks under your belt.

If you DO want to go with the 700, pick it first with the shackle OPEN to get the feel of the cylinder. The last lock that gave me problems was a 700. It had shackle / actuator issues on top of the strong spring. (No excuse, just fact).

Whatever American / Master owned and made product you buy, I suggest you open it and clean it before you even start picking it. American is owned by Master and the build quality is iffy on a good day ....

Hope this is helpful.

[nite0wl]

Have you tried Yale or Abus keyways? They tend to really test your ability to deal with tight warding and challenge you to examine your tension tool selection.

[south town ninja]

will do. thnx all!

[nickmannnxx]

If your looking for a challenge after the Anericans there are some nice, cheap abus locks on ebay. Search abus nycha. They were keyed up and engraved for the New York City Housing Authority, but never sold to them. So they are being sold for $10 plus shipping, which is another $10. I bought 2 just to get 2 for $30 instead of 1 for $20. They have 6 pins cylinders with 5 spools and they keyways are alittle tight.

I can pick them now but they are a challenge.

Plus if schlage is too easy now you could try repinning it with security pins. If you dont have any you can make your own. Put a pin into your drill to use it as sort of lathe. Then with the drill on and the pin spinning cut into the middle of the pin with a file.

I didnt come up with this tech (not sure who did) but it works!

[HT4]

I agree that the 700 has a monster spring, but my experience has been that it never comes into play in picking (like it does on the American 747). It kicks in after about 15 degrees of rotation. I'd suggest .018" picks and a .050" pry bar for American cores. If the lock is just for practice, your money is better spent on the 1105 locks (or just the cores). They have the same core, are much cheaper, and are easier to carry around. Also, you can practice for much longer (yes, big locks can get heavy and your hand can cramp up... it's happened to me). On the other hand, the 700 is a nice lock that might actually be useful in preventing theft... I can't say the same for the 1105. If it turns out these locks are too difficult, they are easy to take apart and remove a couple pins.

Good luck.

[daniel22747]

American locks area good choice as well as Abus locks that are made in Germany. The German made Abus locks often have mushroom pins in them.....all mushroom drivers.

[nite0wl]

American locks area good choice as well as Abus locks that are made in Germany. The German made Abus locks often have mushroom pins in them.....all mushroom drivers.

Abus actually uses spool drivers, not mushrooms. I would actually suggest tackling the Abus before American Locks. Abus has most of the more challenging keyways but they mostly use a mix of spools and standard pins (usually more spools than standard) which makes them great to learn about attacking spool and mushroom type drivers. American Lock padlocks almost never use standard pins (at least until the tentacles of Master Lock started worming their way in recently but true American Locks are still on the shelves of many hardware stores and locksmiths) instead they use mixes of serrated and spool pins, only the shortest key pins are 'standard' and the springs on their drivers are very strong.

With American Locks it helps to disassemble them and give them a good soaking in a mild solvent and lubricant bath before attempting to pick them. The factory lubricant they apply hardens quickly on the store shelf and can produce so much resistance that precision pick tools can get hurt.

[jimu57]

I threaded each pin chamber in the plug in a Schlage. Loaded all cylinders with serrated pins. I tried it. Sent it to a buddy. After hours and hours he picked it once. Bumped it once. And no more. Hardly any feedback when SPP'ing. I was surprised actually. A simple modification made it impossible to pick, within a reasonable amount of time.

[arielschoenberg]

you should definitely get a Yale try one of those out. If you end up getting one let me know what you think.

[Davis]

American Lock padlocks almost never use standard pins (at least until the tentacles of Master Lock started worming their way in recently but true American Locks are still on the shelves of many hardware stores and locksmiths) instead they use mixes of serrated and spool pins, only the shortest key pins are 'standard' and the springs on their drivers are very strong.

I'm curious about this; do you mean that Master Lock has started to produce American Locks that have "standard" pins? I'm aware that they technically could, seeing that depths 0-7 in Master are equal to depths 1-8 in American.

At the lock shop where I work, we go through MANY American Locks. I've only seen American Locks come with the following for pins: serrated top pins, spool top pins with serrations in the ends, bottom pins 1 and 2 smooth-sided, bottom pins 3-8 with 2 serrations at the top, smooth-sided master pins. If I were to see anything different, my first guess would be that it was not pinned using an American pinning kit.

I'm not discounting what you say, I just am not aware of anything like that happening. Perhaps the American Locks that are going to the "big box" stores are being dealt with differently than the ones that are going to the locksmith industry.

[kwoswalt99-]

American Lock padlocks almost never use standard pins (at least until the tentacles of Master Lock started worming their way in recently but true American Locks are still on the shelves of many hardware stores and locksmiths) instead they use mixes of serrated and spool pins, only the shortest key pins are 'standard' and the springs on their drivers are very strong.

I'm curious about this; do you mean that Master Lock has started to produce American Locks that have "standard" pins? I'm aware that they technically could, seeing that depths 0-7 in Master are equal to depths 1-8 in American.

At the lock shop where I work, we go through MANY American Locks. I've only seen American Locks come with the following for pins: serrated top pins, spool top pins with serrations in the ends, bottom pins 1 and 2 smooth-sided, bottom pins 3-8 with 2 serrations at the top, smooth-sided master pins. If I were to see anything different, my first guess would be that it was not pinned using an American pinning kit.

I'm not discounting what you say, I just am not aware of anything like that happening. Perhaps the American Locks that are going to the "big box" stores are being dealt with differently than the ones that are going to the locksmith industry.

The 5200 govt. locks made after American was bought out, only have standard pins and one master bump stop pin. Usually they are pretty cheap when you buy them surplus. I've seen them sell as low as $7 each.