late 1960's CIA state of the art lock picking still viable?

[Dave55347]

I found something interesting in my reading recently. The book is "Spycraft: the Secret History of the CIA's Spytechs from Communism to Al-Qaeda."

This is its information page at Barnes and Noble: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spycraf ... 1440635304

I'll quote from two full paragraphs on page 212 before I ask my questions.

"In the late 1960's, a TSD (technical services division) engineer developed a concept that mechanisms within key-operated locks could be measured and characterized remotely by marrying emerging ultrasonic measurement technology with an oscilloscope. Portable oscilloscopes had just been introduced and when combined with a small ultrasonic device, the techs would have a tool they could carry easily to the target, use to measure the lengths of the pins in a lock, and therebye acquire the precise data to make a key.

Once the engineer produced a prototype device that produced accurate calculations, OTS contractors refined the design for a field deployable unit. A year later, after the device proved itself by enabling several surreptitious entries into previously inaccessible targets, Cord Meyer, the Associate Deputy Director for Plans, recognized the engineer with a special award that included a $5,000 stipend. In his presentation, Meyer said he could not mention what was acquired from the entries, but added,"This is the largest stipend the DDP has ever awarded for a technical development. This gadget is right out of the James Bond movies."

My questions relate to the lower key pins in a normal pin tumbler lock.

How much of the key pins length hangs down into the key way passage way?

What prevents them from 'falling out' or ''falling down completely" ? Is this one of the purposes of the warding in the keyway of a pin tumbler lock to prevent the pins from completely falling out?

I know that, in a pin column, the spring presses down on the upper pin to hold it against the lower pin, but what keeps the two pins touching each other, especially when there is no key inserted to push the lower pins upward?

Finally, has anyone ever had any experience with this 'state of the art' lock picking method from the 1960's?

Are there current methods using laser light or other such techniques that can be discussed?

I'd love to hear about them.....

Dave55347

[cheerIO]

Hi Dave, I think that I should reiterate my answer from a previous post of yours:

Hi Dave55347,

By looking at your posts I see you are quite new to this. May offer you some suggested reading?

Google: The MIT Guide to Lockpicking and Lockpicking Detail Overkill

Those two documents will give you a very good overview of the fundamentals.

The first chapter of both "books" will explain your pin questions. From your questions, I don't think you are getting the fundamentals of what is going on in the lock. It is much easier to understand operation if you understand what is inside a lock. I think the these documents would really help you. Just a suggestion.

Yes the warding stops the pins at the bottom. And yes the spring pushes down on the pins and key opposes the movement.

Never heard of the portable "x-ray" lock machine. But is sounds very "James Bondish".

[marman]

I know nothing of this James Bond tecnique other than what was written in this post. But I do know quite a lot about (medical) ultrasound, and I have really hard time imagining how this would work. A lock contains a lot of the two worst enemies of ultrasound - metal and air, they very effectively block the soundwaves, making it impossible to see what's behind. You would need to fill the entire lock with transmission gel for starters, after which it would be pretty clear that someone have tampered with the lock. Putting a probe on the outside of the lock wouldn't do you much good. So you'd need an ultrasound tranducer small enough to fit inside the keyway. That can hardly be made with today's technology, and I'm pretty sure they couldn't in the 1960's. And even then - with a probe directly underneath a keypin - ultrasound wouldn't be able to tell how high it needs to be pushed.

So this is one thing I don't believe until I see it When something sounds like alien tech and is 50 years old, it's usually not real.

X-ray could tell how the pins were aligned though, but you'd need to take the cylinder out and put it sideways in a high-power x-ray machine. In other words - can't be used on a locked door.

[Pintickler]

I found something interesting in my reading recently. The book is "Spycraft: the Secret History of the CIA's Spytechs from Communism to Al-Qaeda.

Hey, Dave55347, I read that book a few years before I started learning about locks and I don't remember the part you're talking about in particular, but I do remember that book to be one of the most fascinating I've ever read. And when I finished reading it, like right at the end of the book, the glue that holds the pages in place gave way and the whole book started to come apart. Like, this message will self destruct... Just as I finished reading it. No kidding.
By the way, I tracked down and have a copy of the February 1983 National Geographic magazine. If you read that whole thing you'll know why.

[MBI]

Some of the features in Medeco locks are specifically designed to stop this type of decoding.

I don't know about what took place in the 60s but in the 80s a certain US govt agency asked for this tech to be adapted to Medeco locks to determine if it was a threat they needed to defend against. A prototype was made, and it worked, so Medeco added certain features to randomize pin weights to stop this type of decoder from being exploited by foreign spies against US targets. I have it firsthand from a very reliable source that at least one functional prototype was made, which from the description, sounds like the equipment quoted by OP.

Funny though, how we've since discovered that with a lot of practice, it is possible to pick them with just a regular hook pick and tension wrench. No special tool or million dollar machines needed. Medeco locks with certain types of pins can be also be picked and partially decoded with some tubing and a piece of bent guitar string; look up Jon King's Medecoder elsewhere on this forum.

[teamstarlet]

Sounds fascinating! ...so I just ordered a copy

[marman]

I'm a bit puzzled by a few things here, maybe someone with historical knowledge could help me out.
First - didn't lockpicking as it is today exist in the 60's, with simple hooks and tension wrenches? Lockpicks seem like so simple / low-tech yet effective devices, that it would be strange if CIA needed this device instead.
Second - wasn't pin tumbler locks generally much simpler in the 60's - I have the impression from somewhere that security pins dated from later decades? So that lock pickers of that time would have an easier job than today, with all kinds of nasty high security pins/locks?
I'm probably wrong on several accounts here, would like a little history lesson.

[Big Jesse]

Some of the features in Medeco locks are specifically designed to stop this type of decoding.

i heard this very same thing in 2010, while as an apprentice. but it was described to me, that there was a patent, for a tool that used air, and an air compressor, and the air basically had variable settings, and burst settings, simulating a single pick, or a bump key, or a snap gun, and could run through dozens of combinations of all 3 methods within seconds, and because of this 'patent' alone, even though the tool wasnt real, Medeco stepped up their security features. however what features were added i have no idea. and i have never thought about this conversation i had 5 years ago until now. but it supports yours i think.