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Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 10:26

Greetings,
I have a question regarding the combination to a Sargent Greenleaf combination lock.
I won a Major safe at auction which didn't come with the combination to the door.
Fortunately, the safe was open, allowing me access to the backside of the combination lock.
What I'm wondering is:
Can I determine the combination that is currently set?
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 10:31

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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby BSG_314159 » 13 Apr 2015 10:41

So this sergeant and Greenleaf looks a lot like mine. I have a older style US Military S&G safe with no change key hole for the combination. Mine came apart really easy.

What I did was just disassemble it and change the numbers to the combination I wanted. I can take pictures of mine to show you. Have you tried to just turn the dial to see when the discs line up to find out the combination?

Did you win it at a government auction? The standard operating procedures for safes is to change the combo to 50-25-50. Have you tried that combination? I am not sure if they do that in the civilian world but all I know is the military way.
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 10:56

I did win it at an auction from a transit operation in Vancouver, WA last week :-)
I tried the 50-25-50 a couple different ways (r-l-r) & (l-r-l)....no luck.
A little research shows this might be e four number combination....not sure.....I'm not a "lock guy" at all (yet)....so.....taking it apart would probably be equivalent to "might as well make a boat anchor out of it now" for me !

Pictures work really well for me.....I really have no experience in the lock mechanics (yet)
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby BSG_314159 » 13 Apr 2015 11:04

fj40dave wrote:I did win it at an auction from a transit operation in Vancouver, WA last week :-)
I tried the 50-25-50 a couple different ways (r-l-r) & (l-r-l)....no luck.
A little research shows this might be e four number combination....not sure.....I'm not a "lock guy" at all (yet)....so.....taking it apart would probably be equivalent to "might as well make a boat anchor out of it now" for me !



I guess I was a lock guy before I knew I was a lock guy. I love to tinker with things. So I know very little about safes so don't take my information as set in stone.

I would take that plate of the back then start spinning the combo dial counter clockwise until you see it spin only one disc. Now line that first disc gap with the second disc gap. write that number down. Now turn it clockwise until you line both those with the thirds disk gap. Now turn the dial unitill all the discs gaps line up with that arm. The arm will drop then you will turn counterclockwise to retract the bolt thing.

I Know very little about safes but I played with mine many times without the back plate on.

If this doesn't help someone else here will have more experience to help. I am a DIY kinda guy.


Its like a math problem (algebra) you are solving for X. You want to be able to turn the dial to move that locking device. In order to do that you need all the discs gaps (cuts) to line up. Make sure you write down all the numbers when you are putting all the discs in order.
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 11:10

Cool....I'll give it a try....gotta run for now though.....have ta be tonight.

Thank You!!!!
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby Squelchtone » 13 Apr 2015 11:18

[EDIT: Moved to the Questions From The Public - This Old Safe area]

We have a thread already just for this kind of thing, take a look here: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=57366

good luck,
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Apr 2015 11:58

BSG fairly well described a bit the way to find the combination. Will come back to that in a moment.

A common thing to do these days is to set the combination to 50. Turn the dial counter-clockwise four full turns, stopping at 50. Then turn clockwise until the lever nose drops into the drive cam. If that is the correct combination, the lever will go all the way down, with the fence (flat bar that crosses over all the wheels) dropping into the gates (cutouts in the wheels). The dial will come to a stop, but the bolt will not retract with the back cover off due to the internal relocker. If the dial stops turning, then you can press the back cover on then continue to turn the dial to retract the dial.

To find the combination if the fore mentioned test combinations, turn the dial clockwise at least four turns until you see all the wheels starting to turn. When the gate on the wheel closest to the front of the safe is lined up under the fence, look at the number on the dial and write it down. That is your first number of the combination.

Now turn the dial counter clockwise until the middle wheel's gate is under the fence. Look at your dial and write the number down. This is the second number of your combination.

Now turn the dial counter-clockwise until the gate of the wheel closest to you is under the fence. Look at the dial and write down the final number of the combination.

Finally, turn the dial clockwise until the nose of the lever drops into the cutout in the drive cam.

If the lever does drop into the drop zone (cutout in the drive cam), you have the correct combination. Put on the back cover and you are set. If not, the. Look carefully at the fence and wheels. You will likely see that the gate for one of the wheels is slightly out of alignment with the fence. The wheel closest to the front of the safe door is your first number, the one closest to the back cover is the last number. Find which gate is out of alignment with the fence, and which way it is turned.

Seen from the back of the lock, if the gate is too far to the left of the fence, then add one (or more) numbers to that combination number. For example, if your first combination was 20-95-17, and the gate of the middle wheel was slightly off to the left, then try dialing 20-96-17.

If the same gate is off to the right, then subtract a number. 20-95-17 becomes 20-94-17.

Of the gate is still off, then adjust the numbers accordingly.

Let us know how it goes for you! You don't need to tell us the combination, just that you got it. :)

Gordon
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 15:26

This is what I have been able to acomplish so far.....and.....I'll go check out the link provided about this topic being discussed previously.....thanks guys!

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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby Squelchtone » 13 Apr 2015 15:37

That looks like you either moved the wheels by hand and aligned them to that location, or you dialed the combination to the changing index. You want the cutout in the wheels to be directly under the fence which is a rectangular rod soldered into the back of the nose, that looks like a bird's beak.

The way the wheels are right now, would be great IF you had a change key handy, you would at this moment put the cover back on, insert the change key, turn it and dial in a new combination, but I believe you are at the moment only trying to recover the existing combination, right?

take a look at this video, it may help you align the gates in the wheels under the fence: (his terminolagy is a little off.. the bar is a fence, the gap in the wheels is a gate, and all 3 wheels are the wheelpack, each wheel is just a wheel, he seems to call each wheel a wheelpack)


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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Apr 2015 15:51

As Squelchtone stated, looks like you are dialed to the change index.

In the picture above, directly below the right side of the yellow square you can see a piece of metal is stuck through a hole in the shiny lever. That piece of metal is the fence. You want the gates in the wheels to be directly lined up with the fence.

Also, the drive cam (the part with VU, VD, LH and RH stamped on it) would need to be turned so the cut out part (drop area) would be under the part of the lever that is currently resting on the round edge of the drive cam.

You are nearly there!

Gordon
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 15:58

I'm close!!!
Figured out there was a bar behind the "beak"...allowing the entire gate to drop once I get things lined up......now I gotta line 'em up using the combination yet to be discovered.....pressing on!
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby bitbuster » 13 Apr 2015 16:42

the 'beak' is called the nose (of the lever).
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby fj40dave » 13 Apr 2015 17:21

I got it!!

Tried it several times before puting the door back on the safe.....tried it several times before closing it.....then, well...held my breath and closed it and locked it.....and I got it opened!! Woo Hoo!
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Re: Sargent Greenleaf combination?

Postby Squelchtone » 13 Apr 2015 17:22

fj40dave wrote:I got it!!

Tried it several times before puting the door back on the safe.....tried it several times before closing it.....then, well...held my breath and closed it and locked it.....and I got it opened!! Woo Hoo!


Congrats!

So what was the combination? =)
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