Spool easier then normal pins?

[ckc123]

I'm going a bit nuts here..

I have several locks (6) which are standard pins locks (SC1/SC4/Sargent) which I find really hard to SPP (I can rake them open), but locks with spools etc are easier to SPP..

I'm not sure if its the tension I am/should be using (thinking I should be able to use quite a bit more tension on a normal pin), or the more subtle feedback of a regular pins.


I think I might be over lifting the pins and the tension might be too light for normal pins but I'm not sure..

[BSG_314159]

You know what I sorta have the same problem as you. When I first started picking I just used the vast amount of military locks I had to practice on so all I know is spool pins and serrated pins.

What kind of locks are the spool pins in? You mentioned the standard pin ones. If it's the same lock then maybe you just need to practice ones with no spools. If it's different types of locks then maybe you are having a hard time with those locks in general. I have several locks with no spool pins and I can hardly open them to save my life.

treat it like a science experiment... keep as many elements the same (brand model of a lock for example) then see if it's truly the pins. Also have to factor weathering (condition of the locks).

[BSG_314159]

I think I might be over lifting the pins and the tension might be too light for normal pins but I'm not sure..

Rule #1: You can never go to light on the tension!!!

[GWiens2001]

Rule #1: You can never go to light on the tension!!!

Most of the time, working on deadbolts, mortise cylinders, cam locks and many padlocks that comment is true. But on some, especially padlocks, you might have to use a fair bit of tension.

Some padlocks use return springs on the cylinders that constantly apply pressure to turn the plug back to the locked position. Balancing the tension needed can get tricky with those locks. Too little tension, and the pins won't bind. Too much tension and they will bind too much.

For a good example of that, try picking an old American 747 padlock. Those have a ridiculously strong return spring. By the time you are applying enough tension to bind the pins, the tension is so strong that you can't feel any feedback through the tension wrench.

Gordon

[nite0wl]

Once you get used to them and have really gotten variable tensioning and rotation control, many types of spool pins do make it easier because they give you a bit more guidance on your progress. Sometimes though when the pinning and binding order is just right they make things much more difficult, each spool causing another pin or two to reset and so on.

As BSG_314159 and GWiens2001 pointed out, tension is the essential thing with spool pins. Not going too heavy while still fighting against return springs or other encumberances and having fine enough control of the plug to let the counter rotation slide the spool pin into a set without dropping all of your set pins.

[BSG_314159]

Rule #1: You can never go to light on the tension!!!

Most of the time, working on deadbolts, mortise cylinders, cam locks and many padlocks that comment is true. But on some, especially padlocks, you might have to use a fair bit of tension.

Some padlocks use return springs on the cylinders that constantly apply pressure to turn the plug back to the locked position. Balancing the tension needed can get tricky with those locks. Too little tension, and the pins won't bind. Too much tension and they will bind too much.

For a good example of that, try picking an old American 747 padlock. Those have a ridiculously strong return spring. By the time you are applying enough tension to bind the pins, the tension is so strong that you can't feel any feedback through the tension wrench.

Gordon

I still stand by my statement but you are right gordon.

Rule #1 (revised) you can never go to light on the tension on certain locks

The best part about lockpicking is all the different locks that add different levels of security.

My rule one is my Rule one because I always start with as little tension as I can. I add more if needed based on what model lock I'm going with. Some of my locks require a modular approach with the tension. Light medium light medium for a example depending on the pins I'm manipulating.

[GWiens2001]

You have it down, BSG. That is exactly the way to handle it.

Gordon

[FarmerFreak]

Spool pins are generally easier once you get the hang of them. The few times they are harder is because two or more pins like to keep falling down, each time you lift the other one.

Obviously you need light tension when dealing with spools. Spool pins aside, I like heavy tension, I like to hear the pins go "Click" "Click" "Click." But anybodies idea of what is heavy tension vs light tension is different from everybody else.

Here's the thing, if your tools are getting bent at all, that's too much tension for that tool.

[BSG_314159]

Spool pins are generally easier once you get the hang of them. The few times they are harder is because two or more pins like to keep falling down, each time you lift the other one.

Obviously you need light tension when dealing with spools. Spool pins aside, I like heavy tension, I like to hear the pins go "Click" "Click" "Click." But anybodies idea of what is heavy tension vs light tension is different from everybody else.

Here's the thing, if your tools are getting bent at all, that's too much tension for that tool.

I may have to change my rule number one now! You made my S&G 833s look like master locks 140s

[FarmerFreak]

Spool pins are generally easier once you get the hang of them. The few times they are harder is because two or more pins like to keep falling down, each time you lift the other one.

Obviously you need light tension when dealing with spools. Spool pins aside, I like heavy tension, I like to hear the pins go "Click" "Click" "Click." But anybodies idea of what is heavy tension vs light tension is different from everybody else.

Here's the thing, if your tools are getting bent at all, that's too much tension for that tool.

I may have to change my rule number one now! You made my S&G 833s look like master locks 140s

Not unless it takes an hour to pick a master 140.

[BSG_314159]

Not unless it takes an hour to pick a master 140.

You are forgetting the time change from S&G to master lock. I imagine you just look at master lock 140's and they open!

I will not tell you how long I have spent on a 833..... haha and it still laughs at me to this day. That's with brand new clean cores installed.

I like how you mentioned everyone's opinion on what's light and heavy will vary. Whatever allows a person to open the lock open that is the tension one should use.

[UnlockingBoredom]

Well its been 2 months now that I started picking locks. I would rake/zip open the Master #1,2,3,4,5 etc.. along with Schlage and quickset. I thought I was great at picking locks because they were so easy to open. Until I tried to SPP any of them... That was not working so I had to go to a lock with security pins to make myself lighten up on the tension.

I purchased an American 1105, It took maybe 2 days to learn how to SPP security pins and then I went back and SPP'd the non-security locks I had.

I still find it easier to pick spools and serrated pins then it is to pick standard pins, Its just easier to feel the feedback that the security pins are giving.

So I agree with you! spools are easier then standard!

[marman]

I'm having a bit of trouble with some spools. On this one lock - when all pins are picked except for a spool - I get a huge false set. I then feel I have to apply almost opposite tension combined with a lot of force on the keypin to get the spool set. Very tricky - holding light enough tension so the spool can get past the shear line, while simultaneously having enough tension to not drop all the other pins when it sets.

[GWiens2001]

That is quite common. So is having a couple of other key pins drop when you set the spool. Just reset the other pins after the spool pin is set.

In theory, the spool pin needed to be set before the other pins that dropped. In practice, especially when dealing with security pins, the other pins will be found first

Gordon

[marman]

Thanks, that is good advice. I'm slowly learning these little quirks, and have stopped cursing when I hear the avalanche of other pins dropping as a spool sets...