suggest security improvements to business owner

[dll932]

There maybe...here they all got religion after all those nightclub fires where people couldn't get out.

[MatrixBlackRock]

If you put a double where it shouldn't be in a multiunit dwelling or a semipublic place and a fire marshal comes in and says take it out, you will have one unhappy customer. I have refused requests when they collide with the law and explained why to the customer.

Wise decision, while most code violations if discovered, will result in an order to correct the violation and a civil penalty, which is the equivalent of a traffic ticket, violations discovered by an investigation, after that fact, can result in serious civil penalties including suspension or loss of ones license and if there was a loss of life, as a result the violation, criminal charges may be filed against the person(s) who created the violation.

Access control which involves required egress can be a real can of worms and interwoven codes.

Wayne

Wayne

[Pintickler]

If you do automotive lockouts a good way to drum up business is to get some decent pens made with your name and number on them. Go around to every gas station / convenience store and give the employees a couple of your pens. They will thank you right away for giving them something they can use, and days later when they're doing their crappy paperwork with your pen, they'll think to themselves, " Dang I like this pen ! I sure am gonna tell the next person who locks their keys in their car ( it won't be long ) to call victorylocksmith. "
Try not to judge "mrchristopher" by sausage related humor you've seen in other posts. I think he gave you some very good advice. That whole bit about solving a problem they've never had is a good way to think about it. And, like he was saying, looking the part goes a long way toward gaining the trust of a total stranger.

[globallockytoo]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

the customers request cannot trump the law!

that is the most stupid comment i have ever seen you make!

If the customer tells you to jump off the cliff...are you gonna jump?

it is your responsibility to only abide by the law. if the customer wants something illega.....refuse to do the works. Your reputation is on the line, here!

Your insurance will not cover you for being stupid. Why dont you ask them if they will cover you for completing a customers request, that contravenes the law of the land?

(sometimes you really disappoint Bill)

[dll932]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

If you put a double where it shouldn't be in a multiunit dwelling or a semipublic place and a fire marshal comes in and says take it out, you will have one unhappy customer. I have refused requests when they collide with the law and explained why to the customer.

Where possible I figure out an alternative. WRT glass in or next to the door, I usually suggest applying plexi over the glass on the inside. If appearance is important, picture frame molding can be put over the edges and painted.

The Fire Marshals around here are too scarce for anything but commercial properties

Then it would come down to your personal judgement about occupant safety vs. security. If nothing else, have them sign a statement on the invoice saying they could be a potential hazard in case of emergency exit, and to put a key near the door.

[allan501]

Then it would come down to your personal judgement about occupant safety vs. security. If nothing else, have them sign a statement on the invoice saying they could be a potential hazard in case of emergency exit, and to put a key near the door.

Do you really want your name on a piece of paper saying you knew you were violating building coding being presented at an inquest being held because some children burned to death.

I wouldn't want to live with your conscience.

[billdeserthills]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

the customers request cannot trump the law!

that is the most stupid comment i have ever seen you make!

If the customer tells you to jump off the cliff...are you gonna jump?

it is your responsibility to only abide by the law. if the customer wants something illega.....refuse to do the works. Your reputation is on the line, here!

Your insurance will not cover you for being stupid. Why dont you ask them if they will cover you for completing a customers request, that contravenes the law of the land?

(sometimes you really disappoint Bill)

Whatever, Dude,
I put double deadbolts on My doors in my home and business. If the fire marshal doesn't like it, I'm sure he knows where he can go.
I am not going to let the rule of Man interfere with one of my anti-burglary rules. My way when a robber breaks in, whatever he steals
he will need to carry out the broken window he got in thru, Your way gives him the run of the house.

[cledry]

The difference is on YOUR home, on YOUR business you put them. Not on the home or business of a customer. Around here, homes are allowed double cylinder deadbolts, we recommend against them but will put them on if the customer requests. We never put them on mobile homes though! Businesses are not allowed double cylinder locks if the door has an exit sign. Multi-unit residential is a grey area sometimes.

We had a customer this week with a yoga studio want to replace the hookbolt with a push paddle and latch lock. We refused the job and told them that building usage and loading exceeded what a push paddle would permit. He thought about it and tomorrow we are installing an Adams Rite push bar and electric strike. We possible could have lost the job but in this case the customer actually thanked us for knowing the law and will likely use us again.

Believe it or not, rules often have a logical reason. Not everything is the big bad government wanting to infringe on your rights and your business.

[billdeserthills]

The difference is on YOUR home, on YOUR business you put them. Not on the home or business of a customer. Around here, homes are allowed double cylinder deadbolts, we recommend against them but will put them on if the customer requests. We never put them on mobile homes though! Businesses are not allowed double cylinder locks if the door has an exit sign. Multi-unit residential is a grey area sometimes.

We had a customer this week with a yoga studio want to replace the hookbolt with a push paddle and latch lock. We refused the job and told them that building usage and loading exceeded what a push paddle would permit. He thought about it and tomorrow we are installing an Adams Rite push bar and electric strike. We possible could have lost the job but in this case the customer actually thanked us for knowing the law and will likely use us again.

Believe it or not, rules often have a logical reason. Not everything is the big bad government wanting to infringe on your rights and your business.

Let me name one rule that is excessively stupid,
In california all knob locks (& levers) must Always be unlocked on the inside, even when locked on the outside
Now Maybe where You work the state pays Your wages, but where I work my customer pays my wages. So, I like to let the client know
that in case of fire, they might have a problem getting out of the front door, without a key, & see where that goes, if the client says, "hmmm
yes, I see, I guess we would rather have thieves breaking through the window and just letting themselves in through the door, after all." Then
I figure, enough said, however when my client asks me "what would You do?" I explain exactly why I put that double deadbolt upon My door and
then I show them where I like to hide an extra key. Then I do my best to "Shut Up & take the money" just like dear old Dad used to tell me.

[globallockytoo]

The difference is on YOUR home, on YOUR business you put them. Not on the home or business of a customer. Around here, homes are allowed double cylinder deadbolts, we recommend against them but will put them on if the customer requests. We never put them on mobile homes though! Businesses are not allowed double cylinder locks if the door has an exit sign. Multi-unit residential is a grey area sometimes.

We had a customer this week with a yoga studio want to replace the hookbolt with a push paddle and latch lock. We refused the job and told them that building usage and loading exceeded what a push paddle would permit. He thought about it and tomorrow we are installing an Adams Rite push bar and electric strike. We possible could have lost the job but in this case the customer actually thanked us for knowing the law and will likely use us again.

Believe it or not, rules often have a logical reason. Not everything is the big bad government wanting to infringe on your rights and your business.

Let me name one rule that is excessively stupid,
In california all knob locks (& levers) must Always be unlocked on the inside, even when locked on the outside
Now Maybe where You work the state pays Your wages, but where I work my customer pays my wages. So, I like to let the client know
that in case of fire, they might have a problem getting out of the front door, without a key, & see where that goes, if the client says, "hmmm
yes, I see, I guess we would rather have thieves breaking through the window and just letting themselves in through the door, after all." Then
I figure, enough said, however when my client asks me "what would You do?" I explain exactly why I put that double deadbolt upon My door and
then I show them where I like to hide an extra key. Then I do my best to "Shut Up & take the money" just like dear old Dad used to tell me.

Really?!?

Are you deliberately playing devils advocate?
There are many ways to secure a premise and prevent window smashing, to slow down a would be intruder, without breaking any laws, maintaining building/life safety codes and still making as good, if not better money than doing as you suggest and directly or indirectly causing potential bodily harm. Yours is not to choose for the customer, true. But yours is to act responsibly and above board, at all times.
Wanna stop the windows being smashed? Ever heard of window security film? It allows you to completely comply with the law and prevent glass breakage simultaneously.

Yes....you can do it Bills way. Or you can choose to do it the right way. life safety always trumps stupidity.

There's an old saying, "think about how much it will really cost you by not having a trained professional service your needs".

[billdeserthills]

Window film, good one. I actually contacted the window film folks to do their treatment on my last house. They said the measurements I took could not possibly be correct,
Thanks window film guys. Ooh let's not forget the security shutters also, yeah I'm gonna make a bunch of money giving my double deadbolt job away to those guys, Won't I?
Of course US Lock sells actual steel window bars, and I have installed them in a couple of places. Unfortunately they become much less affordable if You opt for the bars that
allow You to exit. Apparently safety is an expensive mistress

I'm in the process of having another house built for me right now, I have been thinking about going with the roll-up shutters


Btw My Dr. has killed more people than I have, so mebbe You should get on his @ss, if You are soo against dead folks

[MatrixBlackRock]

We had a customer this week with a yoga studio want to replace the hookbolt with a push paddle and latch lock. We refused the job and told them that building usage and loading exceeded what a push paddle would permit. He thought about it and tomorrow we are installing an Adams Rite push bar and electric strike. We possible could have lost the job but in this case the customer actually thanked us for knowing the law and will likely use us again.

That's true customer service, while a trunk slammer would just have banged out what was requested, you took the time to educate the customer and offer them the proper solution and in the end saving them money and the headache of having to redo something that should have never been done to begin with.

Yea you might piss a few jobs away doing that, but in the end you win by having the time to move on to a "real" paying customer.

Wayne

[MatrixBlackRock]

Then I do my best to "Shut Up & take the money" just like dear old Dad used to tell me.

While at one time way back when, your dear old Dad's advice might have passed unnoticed, but it's a bad path to follow nowadays, the reason being, a "shut up and take the money" type of workmanship, can after the fact become something a personal injury attorney or prosecutor or lord help you, a Grand Jury, will burn you very badly with.

While the target was never on my back, I have been involved in the civil side of that process more than a few times and on the GJ side once and just that involvement alone made it very clear to me as a licensed contractor I never, ever, wanted to be the target of such.

Govern yourself accordingly.

Wayne

[cledry]

Window film, good one. I actually contacted the window film folks to do their treatment on my last house. They said the measurements I took could not possibly be correct,
Thanks window film guys. Ooh let's not forget the security shutters also, yeah I'm gonna make a bunch of money giving my double deadbolt job away to those guys, Won't I?
Of course US Lock sells actual steel window bars, and I have installed them in a couple of places. Unfortunately they become much less affordable if You opt for the bars that
allow You to exit. Apparently safety is an expensive mistress

I'm in the process of having another house built for me right now, I have been thinking about going with the roll-up shutters


Btw My Dr. has killed more people than I have, so mebbe You should get on his @ss, if You are soo against dead folks

it is scary that in the land of the free you need to lock your house up like this. Scary fact; more people die from medical mistakes each year in the US than died at the hands of FARC in Colombia in their worst years.

[cledry]

The difference is on YOUR home, on YOUR business you put them. Not on the home or business of a customer. Around here, homes are allowed double cylinder deadbolts, we recommend against them but will put them on if the customer requests. We never put them on mobile homes though! Businesses are not allowed double cylinder locks if the door has an exit sign. Multi-unit residential is a grey area sometimes.

We had a customer this week with a yoga studio want to replace the hookbolt with a push paddle and latch lock. We refused the job and told them that building usage and loading exceeded what a push paddle would permit. He thought about it and tomorrow we are installing an Adams Rite push bar and electric strike. We possible could have lost the job but in this case the customer actually thanked us for knowing the law and will likely use us again.

Believe it or not, rules often have a logical reason. Not everything is the big bad government wanting to infringe on your rights and your business.

Let me name one rule that is excessively stupid,
In california all knob locks (& levers) must Always be unlocked on the inside, even when locked on the outside
Now Maybe where You work the state pays Your wages, but where I work my customer pays my wages. So, I like to let the client know
that in case of fire, they might have a problem getting out of the front door, without a key, & see where that goes, if the client says, "hmmm
yes, I see, I guess we would rather have thieves breaking through the window and just letting themselves in through the door, after all." Then
I figure, enough said, however when my client asks me "what would You do?" I explain exactly why I put that double deadbolt upon My door and
then I show them where I like to hide an extra key. Then I do my best to "Shut Up & take the money" just like dear old Dad used to tell me.

I happen to think the alternative is excessively stupid.

Why would you assume the state pays my wages? You baffle me at times with your off the cuff comments. There are so many customers calling that I can pick and choose. I pick those who follow my advice and let bottom feeders have the ones who choose to ignore the safety of themselves, their employees and their customers. Life safety for me is not a compromise. If they want to go cheap on a lock, for example grade 2 instead of grade 1 then that is fine. If they want Chinese import instead of American made, that is fine. If they want a double cylinder deadbolt when a panic bar is required that is not fine.