nickmannnxx wrote:Second on wishing cheap locks around here looked like that. The cheap ones around my area are Brinks, and they are a joke.
Anyone know, the two offset holes are for anti drill pins? Or are those whats known as trap pins?
trap pins are a rare animal in the lock world for most of us. Brinks installs hardened rods into those offset holes so someone will have to really work to drill out a plug.
As you've figured out, it's a noname cylinder from Biltema. These, and its siblings, are always (to my knowledge) based on the ASSA 700 with the HH-keyway. The difference between a genuine ASSA 700 and the nonames are a few.
First, almost all ASSA 700 have a SCD core and housing. This means that they have hardened inserts in both the core and the housing. It also incorporates hardened top and bottom pins along the axis of the hardened inserts. This creates a path diagonally across the plug to force a drill bit away from the shear line, or even break the drill bit. The nonames that are not 'insurance approved'* does not have hardened inserts or pins.
The bottom pins in a ASSA 700 are 'stainless' steel torpedos. The hardened pins mentioned above are not torpedo-shaped though. The nonames have regular bottom pins.
The top pins in a ASSA 700 are of several types: Regular pins (some 'stainless') with hardened inserts, regular (rare, usually one) and the 'christmas tree' / 'shaft grenade' / 'pirate monocular' ones, always 'stainless'. The nonames have regular pins, 'christmas tree' pins and usually also regular spools. ASSA never uses regular spools. The noname pins are usually cast brass, some very crude castings. The ASSA 700 pins are to my knowledge always machined 'stainless' ones, with the occasional brass one (especially older ones).
*The 'insurance approved' or 'insurance lock' seen on some ASSA, Abloy, Abus products is a rating that especially Scandinavian insurance companies uses. This does not implies that your insurance does not apply if your lock not is not approved. The companies have agreed, along with the industry, of a set of properties a good lock / door / window should have. Normal residents does not have an insurance that require this. You could have a 100 year old wooden door with a 5-lever lock, and the insurance will cover it. But if you have something of high value, such as art, precious metals, electronics etc, the insurance company may demand that your home is 'insurance approved'. This cylinder would not meet these requirements. Mostly because it's not drill resistant enough. If you want it, there is 'insurance approved' nonames as well.
Thanks for the replies. That was interesting reading, Berget.
To answer my own original question, yes I think it's usable as a practice lock, although maybe not ideal. After working on it for some days I can now confidently pick it set up with 4 pins - 3 regular drivers / upside-down keypins and one spool, which isn't that much to brag about but it's progress so I'm happy.
The core has a little bit of milling around the edge of the holes (don't know the appropriate english word for it), which makes a little slope on the shear line.I guess is a kind of anti-pick measure and might explain why I feel I get tricky feedback from the pins?
A cut 5 ml syringe. Transparent so I don't forget a pin.
The additional milling in the plug pin channels is called 'counter milling'. It is used to catch those spool pins, and especially the double spool pins.
Congratulations on your increasing picking skills!
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
Thanks! About counter milling, I've thought that the purpose of that was to create a ridge / recess in the pin chamber wall that spools and serrations would be caught in. Such as the illustration to the right on this exaggerated sketch. My lock doesn't have that, the wall of the pin chamber is smooth. Instead there is a small widening of the opening like on the left picture. Not sure though if the tip of a pin would be stuck on this small "slope".
Thought you were referring to something like the right drawing. Looks like the other drawing would represent a way to make the lock still work longer even when the key and pins are heavily worn.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
GWiens2001 wrote:Thought you were referring to something like the right drawing. Looks like the other drawing would represent a way to make the lock still work longer even when the key and pins are heavily worn.
Gordon
Interesting design to increase longevity - particularly these days when products seem designed to break as soon as the warranty expires.
However, I think that chamfering around the tops of the pin chambers would make it easier to pick.
I thought it would make it easier to pick as well but then while looking at it, it looks like if they had a spool pin in there it would go into a real deep false set and be hard to get the pin to straighten out.... I could be wrong though
Pintickler wrote: If you learn to pick that thing, with all those security pins in it, you have every right to be proud of yourself.
I did it! Picked the whole thing with all seven bells and whistles in place! Nvm my first scepticism, this is an awesome practice lock. I have been practicing long hours on it, slowly adding additional pins. First only regulars, then spools, and lastly the christmas trees. Never thought I'd get it in less than a month, though. It's so rewarding to actually feel progress like this. And I am quite proud of it
You have good reason to be proud, marman. Big congratulations are in order.
Practice with that lock a number of times as it is, then swap around the pins. You will be surprised at how much moving the pins to different places will affect how easy or hard to pick the lock becomes. The hardest is likely to be a very high pin in the very back with a very low one right in front of it. Add a Christmas tree driver pin, and try picking that! Practicing combinations like that is a great way of seeing how far out the window you can throw the lock.
Have a great day and get yourself a glass of Hansa.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
