Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

A practice "cutaway" lock that was SO easy to make

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

A practice "cutaway" lock that was SO easy to make

Postby mh » 3 Apr 2006 15:51

Usually, cutaway locks are very nice to look at, they show the features of advanced locks, and they also require a lot of effort and skill to make them.

Not this one...

When I tried to pick a American Series 2000 padlock (which I originally bought because I liked the heavy construction with no boltcutter access), I became quickly frustrated with this 6 pin lock.
The keyway is wide open (unlike on most German locks), but I simply couldn't feel the shear line.
So I removed the pins just to find that they are nearly all serrated, even the bottom pins, except for the shortest ones, and (of course) that the last 4 top pins are spools (but even serrated spools):

Image

I also tried an electric pickgun, because that's one of the few locks I found in my collection with a wide enough keyway, where the momentum-transfer-principle should at least in theory work... It didn't, probably, because I don't have enough training.

Anyway, I thought:
If I want to know what's going on on in this lock, I have to look inside, while picking it.

And then came the part that was so surprisingly easy that I really want to share it with you.

Here's the whole lock (already in the "cutaway" state):

Image

And here is a closeup of the cylinder with a clear view on the pins:

Image

Note that you can't see the shear line, as you can with some other cutaway locks, but I think that's actually an advantage, because the feeling of the binding pins is unchanged - it might be changed if part of the lock is cut away at the shear line.

What you can however see is the position of the pins, in the last picture they are all aligned. Now I was able to compare my 'feeling' to the actual position of the pins.


And it was SOOOOO easy to make:

1) Remove the plug and subsequently the pins and springs.
2) Use a metal file to file down the side of the lock, until you can see the positions of the pins - when the metal around the pin holes is thin enough, you will see it. However, you can't file it away properly, because it's too thin and will just bend below the file. Anyway,
3) once you can see the shape of the pin holes (rectangular, because you look at the side of them), put the uncut side of a drill bit inside the pin holes, to bend the thin metal to the outside again, then file it down a little bit more.
4) Now the metal around the pin holes should be thin enough, and you can cut it away with a knife or something similar, leaving rectangular openings that are of course thinner that the pins. If they were a wide as the pins, you would have filed too much, and the pins wouldn't hold in the lock anymore.
5) Use the drill bit (the side that's cut) to make sure the pin holes are clean inside
6) Insert the springs & pins & plug again - and:

DONE!
Have fun with your new practice lock!


It helped me a lot to be able to see the pins from the side.
If I want to stop myself from cheating, I simply mount it inside the lock body again :D

Cheers,
Michael
Last edited by mh on 4 Apr 2006 2:00, edited 3 times in total.
mh
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: 3 Mar 2006 4:32
Location: Germany

Postby Treeson » 3 Apr 2006 16:38

Great job, and that was an excellent guide!!! Much better than my first 'cutaway' lock. I think I am definetly going to have to try this on my American Lock as well, and I will post results.

I really like your idea of not including the shear line in your filing, your right, if you cut to the shear line, theres a good chance you will take away from the smooth operation of the lock.

I like the way that this lock appears to be used at least. It seems you were having touble with this lock, and instead of making large and ugly interfering cuts, the file away method is really informative. You will be able to see when the pins are at the correct height while stilll using all sense of correct feel. I find that many cutaways can hamper a newcomer's picking abilities. It helps understand the theory, but they just become so dependent on visual capabilities. It's also really nice how you are able to put the cylinder back into the lock and still have it maitain full functionability.

My first cutaway is very bulky and ugly, and not very pratical as my cut, which were all done by hand, interefere in the picking process.

I hope that this gets stickied, and at the very least, reffered to newcomers who are interested in cutaways,


Thanks again for the guide, 8)

Treeson

(P.S.- Excellent pictures)
Treeson
 
Posts: 85
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 21:43
Location: Martha's Vineyard, MA, USA

Postby dmux » 3 Apr 2006 17:59

where did you get the cylinder?
dmux
 
Posts: 611
Joined: 28 Dec 2004 10:56
Location: MD

Postby What » 3 Apr 2006 18:29

dmux wrote:where did you get the cylinder?


he said it was out of an American 2000 series padlock.
What
 
Posts: 948
Joined: 9 Jan 2006 23:17
Location: universe, solar system, earth, n. america, USA, california, orange county

Postby dmux » 3 Apr 2006 19:23

how did he get it out, thats what i want to know, i can never get cylinders out of locks
dmux
 
Posts: 611
Joined: 28 Dec 2004 10:56
Location: MD

Postby Treeson » 3 Apr 2006 19:26

In the American Lock, you look down the hole where the shackle goes once you open it. Theres usually a screw or an allen screw (not sure which, it depends) After you unscrew that, the cylinder will fall right out.

Note-not all locks are rekeyable, you cant take the cylinder out of all padlocks.
Treeson
 
Posts: 85
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 21:43
Location: Martha's Vineyard, MA, USA

Postby mh » 4 Apr 2006 1:58

dmux wrote:how did he get it out, thats what i want to know, i can never get cylinders out of locks


Well, this one is particularly easy, it's a series 2000 padlock, where pulling out the cylinder is part of the opening process. A picture of the lock is here:
http://www.jmlock.com/index.asp?PageAct ... ProdID=148

On page 8 of this Service Manual you can see the concept:
http://www.americanlock.com/A-004_Servi ... -20-05.pdf

The "schackle"-bolt is attached to the cylinder, and if turned 90 degrees, both can be pulled out together. There is a limit to that (1 inch or so), but you can easily remove the retaining screw that's responsible for this limit.

Cheers,
mh

BTW, how do I edit the subject of my post?
It currently reads
"A pratice lock ("cutaway") that was SOOOO easy to"
and it should read
"A pratice lock ("cutaway") that was SOOOO easy to make"
Strange. There seems to be a length limitation(?)
mh
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: 3 Mar 2006 4:32
Location: Germany

Postby clayton1123 » 4 Apr 2006 9:21

How about a tubular cut away lock?
clayton1123
 
Posts: 144
Joined: 8 Feb 2006 19:05
Location: hamilton, colorado

Postby mh » 4 Apr 2006 9:43

clayton1123 wrote:How about a tubular cut away lock?

Do you want to make one?
It's a little bit more difficult, not just one area to file away of course, as not all pins are in a row.
I would recommend to take a Dremel tool and a cutting wheel for that.

Do post pics of the result :)
mh
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: 3 Mar 2006 4:32
Location: Germany

Postby dmux » 4 Apr 2006 20:26

thanks for the info guys!, wow, i had an american 5200 and i took that srew out and wallah...

this is soo cool to mess with, man, i cannot wait to get a file and make my cutaway this weekend
dmux
 
Posts: 611
Joined: 28 Dec 2004 10:56
Location: MD

Postby mh » 14 Jun 2006 18:44

clayton1123 wrote:How about a tubular cut away lock?


Late, but - yes :)
viewtopic.php?t=13535
mh
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: 3 Mar 2006 4:32
Location: Germany

Postby Shrub » 14 Jun 2006 20:39

You could simply use a junior hacksaw to make some thin cuts in the lock body to see the bottom pins if you wanted to.

Nice guide though, its suppriseing how many locks are easy to make into a cut away with a little thought and skill.
Shrub
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 11576
Joined: 23 May 2005 4:03
Location: uk

old American Lock series 2000 without keys

Postby wollner » 10 Nov 2006 6:27

I already have an American series 2000 lock that i bought at a garage sale for 2 dollars -- the catch: no keys :( . what can i do to take it apart? is it possible to pick it/break into it w/o the keys or am i just wasting my time. i'd really love to learn more about locks and this seems to be an interesting lock to study. i would appreciate any help!
-David
wollner
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006 6:19

Re: old American Lock series 2000 without keys

Postby mh » 10 Nov 2006 7:17

wollner wrote:I already have an American series 2000 lock that i bought at a garage sale for 2 dollars -- the catch: no keys :( . what can i do to take it apart? is it possible to pick it/break into it w/o the keys or am i just wasting my time. i'd really love to learn more about locks and this seems to be an interesting lock to study. i would appreciate any help!
-David


Of course you can pick it, it might just be very hard, due to the serrated pins. You could impression it, then you would have a key.
All this is explained somewhere around here, just try a search.

And if this American Series 2000 padlock is not mounted, you could open it with destructive methods more easily than if it was mounted.
Just find a way to pull the cylinder out - either drill the part of the body that holds the end of the 'shackle', or cut / drill the 'shackle'.

Cheers,
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
Image
mh
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: 3 Mar 2006 4:32
Location: Germany

Re: A practice "cutaway" lock that was SO easy to make

Postby happysheerline » 19 May 2015 14:21

The images are not displayed anymore and it is a pity that the idea is now lost. Would you be so kind (or someone) to point out how differently from a typical cutaway this was made? Or upload the pictures again? Or pictures of the same idea?
happysheerline
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 19 May 2015 14:16


Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests