Sargent & Greenleaf wheel pack

[BobPC]

Squelchtone
I brought up ucp.php?i=main&mode=drafts and it says no drafts saved. Does this mean that my original post is gone. All I did was type it all in and clicked on save and it all disappeared. Any other ideas? I really don't want to type it all again.

BobPC

[Squelchtone]

Squelchtone
I brought up ucp.php?i=main&mode=drafts and it says no drafts saved. Does this mean that my original post is gone. All I did was type it all in and clicked on save and it all disappeared. Any other ideas? I really don't want to type it all again.

BobPC

yeah, sounds like its gone.. see if it is in Private Message drafts folder here: ucp.php?i=pm&mode=drafts

are you doing this from a cell phone by any chance? hope you can reply and type it up again or do the best you can with it.

Squelchtone

[BobPC]

Hi All
It looks like I missed a question at the top of the post because it was so long. Thinking it was gone I started to look for it and probably deleted it by moving forward with out checking the yes or no box. When you save be sure to look at the top of the post and x one of the boxes. I successfully saved and restored a reply under manage drafts. Just be sure to scroll back to the top of the now empty text block and answer the question.

I was writing night before last to tell the group that I have solved my safe lock issues. So safe wise I'm a happy camper. Not so Forum wise. I inadvertently discovered a way to delete a post. When you save a post by clicking the save box at the bottom of a post you must also scroll to the top and answer the question that basically asks you did you really mean that you want to save the post. if you don't see or answer this query the post is gone if you move forward. A yes answer says that you are ok with just saving the header and the message no takes you back to the end of your post and moving on to your next step without an answer effectively deletes your post.

What got deleted was a description of how the lock got fixed, some new photos to show details and a web site with interesting diagrams. I am a slow typist and being the second time makes this important to do but a little lower on my priority list. I will get to it asap because of your interest and help.

BobPC

[BobPC]

It time me out so when I hit submit my post when away. I you are going to time me out at least don't let me type more. At least save what has been composed as a draft.

[GWiens2001]

It time me out so when I hit submit my post when away. I you are going to time me out at least don't let me type more. At least save what has been composed as a draft.

If it is going to take that long to type what you want, do what I do on the larger posts. Type it out using a word processor program (such as wordpad or notepad), then cut and paste it onto a reply.

Gordon

[BobPC]

The post I did last night is not in the saved draft location. I believe my mistake was that I left myself logged in while taking a dinner and TV break. It didn't occur to me to check to see if I was still loggedin. I think it's pretty obvious that I wasn't loggedin so that when I hit Submit it blanked out everything and told me that I needed to be loggedin in order to submit a post. Anyway here I go again.

I will start with the 5 new pictures at tinypics Safe Picts 2.

http://tinypic.com/m/ipzic2/4

1 Shows the wheels stacked on the spool. You can see the retaining washer (ring) groove. The retaining washer (ring) is not yet installed.
2 Spool showing a groove for the retaining washer (ring) and the condition of the spool.
3 Spool and Lever this also shows the condition of the spool (there is scaring and wear).
4 Drive Cam. If you look closely at the base of the spool (where the dial post is perpendicular to the flat part of the cam) you can see the retaining washer (ring/clip) forced into a groove (the washer is metallic grey and the cam is brass). I moved the retaining washer (ring) from the cam and installed it in the groove of the spool.
5 Shows the Wheel Pack, Drive Cam, Spacers and the white nylon/plastic washer.

Diagrams (documents found on www.wheelpost.com)

www.wheelpost.com/Documents_PDF/sg_6709_6710.pdf
www.wheelpost.com/Documents_PDF/R6730MP_Specs_b.pdf

More documents can be found at www.wheelpost.com if you are interested.

All of you really helped me come to a successful conclusion to my safe problem. I credit bitbuster for leading me to look at S&G 6709 on Google which was instrmental in finding two important documents on www.wheelpost.com. These docuements gave me pictures and diagrams that helped me see the order and orientationof the wheels. All flys up and the first, second, and third wheels are now in proper order. The diagram for New Style and Old Style M-6730MP made me aware of the existence of a retaining washer (ring) that fits in the groove around the spool. The retaining washer (ring) is shown in the photo of the drive cam. It is pushed into a groove around the base of the dial threaded post and the flat face of the cam. The retaining washer (ring) is metallic grey in the brass cam. You can just barely see it in the photo. I removed the retaining washer (ring) from the cam and installed it in the groove of the spool. The retaining washer (ring) now holds the wheels level and in place with no binding or random hesitations. The wheels all turn smoothly with no sticking problems. There is no tension washer as such. It serves more as a spacer as it does not push on the wheels. It is just a flat white nylon/plastic slippery washer. The wheel pack fits the space on the spool so that they turn freely with no up and down motions. I believe that the wheel pack was incorrectly assembled. As it was assembled without a retaining washer (ring) in the proper position the wheels could bind or hesitate randomly making it impossible to consistently (or at all) to have the gates line up with the fence.

I have re-install the cover the door and checked the dialing tolerance. The tolerance is within 1 number each way on all three numbers. I plan to check my dialing randomly over the next couple of days. I am nervous about installing it in the safe as there is no second chance.

I have installed the door in the safe and so far it continues to open. The dial is smooth with a tiny bit of slop as one would expect considering its wear and age. I expect it to perform forever though I must admit there is a certain amount of excitement as I reach the unknown of the last turn.

Thanks again for your help.

BobPC

[billdeserthills]

You can beat the looseness of your old lock with this old, sloppy locksmith trick that makes many of my clients happy.
Simply widen the gate in the wheels. I take a flat file and cut 1/16" off the left & right side on each wheel, put it back together
and try it ten times, if it works 10 for 10 I'm done. I might have had one call-back in 20 years

[tomasfuk]

... trick that makes many of my clients happy.
Simply widen the gate in the wheels. I take a flat file and cut 1/16" off the left & right side on each wheel...

Sure the clients are happy - they know the lock works comfortably but they don't realize how downgraded is its security now when the tolerance is increased by ±1. FYI, at 3-wheel lock this means the unauthorized opening is 30 times easier now
I am thinking of how to do a reverse modification - the tolerances of my 4-wheel safe lock seem too big to me.

[Squelchtone]

I am thinking of how to do a reverse modification - the tolerances of my 4-wheel safe lock seem too big to me.

How about making the fence fatter by adding different thickness feeler gauge stock stainless steel to the fence and using epoxy to glue it in place. Then measure across the fence with a caliper so it is the same width at all 4 wheel locations.

Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

... trick that makes many of my clients happy.
Simply widen the gate in the wheels. I take a flat file and cut 1/16" off the left & right side on each wheel...

Sure the clients are happy - they know the lock works comfortably but they don't realize how downgraded is its security now when the tolerance is increased by ±1. FYI, at 3-wheel lock this means the unauthorized opening is 30 times easier now
I am thinking of how to do a reverse modification - the tolerances of my 4-wheel safe lock seem too big to me.

They realize that a criminal will still need to gain entry, and while the alarm is going off, find the safe and open it. The police response time in the city is 10-15 minutes,
maybe less. Also my clients are not usually highly strung, paranoid folks, so it works out nicely. Maybe You store too much cash or valuables in Your safes, I like to make
my limit be $10,000 cash in a safe, unless it has at least a "BF" (burglary/fire rating)

[Raymond]

I do not understand why a wheel gate must be widened if the lock is working properly. If the flys are worn you might have to compensate when setting the combo. If all the wheels shift when you reverse directions, adjust/tighten the spacer washer or, again, set with a compensated combo.

I have tightened the tolerances of the fence on some locks in the past by tightly wrapping in a piece of very thin stainless steel. I then secured it by drilling several very small holes, (in the stainless only), and applying JBWeld. It is bonded to the fence and is very tight in the gates.

On one other very sloppy, direct tail piece safe, I made a wrap around the fence and secured it with only one rivet in the middle. The ends of the wrap directly contact the wheels and very small slots in any wheel can bind the fence and wheel. The new surface is now free to swivel a small bit. This must be very confusing to manipulators.

[billdeserthills]

Well Raymond, if You would read the last few posts you can see We are discussing returning a sloppy working lock
back to active status. It really does make a difference, when reading a story, if You read most if not all of it, in the end

[tomasfuk]

They realize that a criminal will still need to gain entry, and while the alarm is going off, find the safe and open it. The police response time in the city is 10-15 minutes, maybe less...

Not in my country.

Also my clients are not usually highly strung, paranoid folks, so it works out nicely. Maybe You store too much cash or valuables in Your safes, I like to make
my limit be $10,000 cash in a safe, unless it has at least a "BF" (burglary/fire rating)

In other words, you say that any safe lock is excessively secure. Why not to use a padlock only then?

... using epoxy to glue it in place...

...applying JBWeld.

I think that using an epoxy glue for such purpose is only a temporary solution. It will not last for tens of years, even in hot climate. My intention is to have a perpetual solution.

I have tightened the tolerances of the fence on some locks in the past by tightly wrapping in a piece of very thin stainless steel. I then secured it by drilling several very small holes, (in the stainless only)...

Did you balance the complete wheels again?

[Squelchtone]

They realize that a criminal will still need to gain entry, and while the alarm is going off, find the safe and open it. The police response time in the city is 10-15 minutes, maybe less...

Not in my country.

Also my clients are not usually highly strung, paranoid folks, so it works out nicely. Maybe You store too much cash or valuables in Your safes, I like to make
my limit be $10,000 cash in a safe, unless it has at least a "BF" (burglary/fire rating)

In other words, you say that any safe lock is excessively secure. Why not to use a padlock only then?

... using epoxy to glue it in place...

...applying JBWeld.

I think that using an epoxy glue for such purpose is only a temporary solution. It will not last for tens of years, even in hot climate. My intention is to have a perpetual solution.

I have tightened the tolerances of the fence on some locks in the past by tightly wrapping in a piece of very thin stainless steel. I then secured it by drilling several very small holes, (in the stainless only)...

Did you balance the complete wheels again?

Along the sames lines, find square metal tubing that will slide over the fence like a sleeve and that should make the fence wide enough to make the dialing tolerances very very tight.

[tomasfuk]

As the fence has neither round nor rectangular cross section (at least those which I ever met), I will rather take a piece of metal sheet, bind it accurately around the fence to fit it tightly, and file the edges to be again sharp.
Not sure which metal to use - brass or stainless steel. Stainless will be difficult to bend but the result will be bomb proof...