Bad install

[Sinifar]

SO this is where that cylinder in the other post ended up. I have seen bad install work but this one takes the cake, and I thought I would share this with the gang ....

To start with, we had bid on this job back in January, but they said they would look elsewhere. Okay, I can live with that -- then they call for a cylinder to be installed on it, as the party to whom they had given the job to did not have access to a cylinder I guess. (RD-1 / 079)





What is wrong with it? Everything!

Starting with I could not get the cylinder to just screw in. Looking at the hole the party had left, it was low and to the right. It had to go more, like 3/32 to the northwest. Time for the half round file to adjust. Take the whole lock out, and more fun...

The inside is crammed into the hole, not just resting in it and being held by the lock. Two the inside lever is not covering the hole completely. It should if this was done right. Three is you look at the photos, you will notice the lock is "sticking out" from the edge of the door. For who ever did this used flat tabs to mount the lock instead of the off set ones, or better the Major LMB08 bracket plate. Of course you need the install tool for that I highly doubt he had one. THEN he uses a radius face plate to cover the mess up.

Flat plates are used for electric strikes. I guess this guy didn't know that.

That lock gang is sticking out from the door about 1/16 or so. This whole thing is wrong.

I tried to fix it, but using offset plates that lock goes in the right depth, but then the two 1 1/4 holes are wayyy off. I would need to make some cover plates for the extra "smile" on the lower right of the lock.

I took these photos just to cover my tail if anyone came back at me over the botched install job.

If you want it cheaper than a full time locksmith with 43 years on the street can install, then you live with the results.

AS I told the office manager -- Look at this lock, then look at the lock just to the left - the outside door - I installed that one and compare that to this. My work takes longer, but the thing is done right, and looks "factory" not three thumbs in the wind.

SInifar

PS. I know who installed it, and I am not naming names to protect the innocent.

Final edit -- what went wrong was this - the layout was wrong. One should have put the face plate on the lock, then used that to gauge where to layout the 1 1/4 holes. ALSO transfer the location to the door, the lock gang, by marking the top and bottom on the door edge, then extend it to the front so one can layout the lock gang in relationship to where the holes will go. Next, the door edge should have been cut, then the face plate fitted with a 4 in hand file to the hole for a perfect fit. Lastly install the Major LMB 08 bracket plates with the tool, then assemble the whole thing. It takes me a bit over an hour and a half to totally fit this type of lock, and in the end, looks like it was done on the bench / factory . No gaps, no holes off location and everything drops in place like it should and works like glass.

Lastly, there are still red marker lines all over the door. I guess they never heard of using a pencil to layout doors, or clean up afterwards. Inside the hole and on the edges it is sharp as all get out. Break the edges before assembling to insure nobody gets cut on the things. Especially if your now "inset" lock goes in just a bit too far. Read that thin door edge.

SS

[MBI]

PS. I know who installed it, and I am not naming names to protect the innocent.

That's generous, since from the looks of things the word "innocent" doesn't seem to apply. Sounds pretty guilty to me.

[billdeserthills]

I love when the client tries to save money and has to pay twice for an install!

[Sinifar]

I know who did the job, because their trucks were still sitting there when I rolled in Tuesday. The client had hopped I would just call, but I was in the area when the office called me to let me know that this was up, so I went over and looked at the job...

The other thing is, and I didn't mention it, but the cylinder is "cocked" -- that is it does not fit flush to the door. This is again an installation problem. Cylinders can only screw in one way. If the lock gang is not "square" to the door, then the cylinder will look cocked. This is another reason to use the Major mounting tabs. Using the ones they used here, the lock gang is slightly turned to match the bevel of the door, as it is attached to that. Thus the lock cylinder sticks out. Solution would be to bend / twist / the mounting tabs or somehow shim the gang to be square with the door.

With the Major tabs, the gang is aligned with the back of the lock pocket, and not the front, and you will need to have a beveled face plate to flush out the install.

LIKE the paint job on the cylinder? that is a new paint I found at home depot. Rust-Oleum Universal metallic paint and primer. This one is "Oil rubbed bronze" .. it has the neatest metallic flakes in it and really looks sharp and matches most of what I have seen.

SS

[jeffmoss26]

Yikes!

[dll932]

I have had to fix the work of many people who should have known better-including other "locksmiths."

[cledry]

Geez, we do these all day long. Very basic work. Decide what backset depending on stile width. Set your router jig on the door at the correct ADA height and route your edge and two holes inside and out. No files needed, no holesaws, no transferring. The jig also positions the mounting holes for the tabs. Then switch over to a jig for the frame on your correct vertical and horizontal centerline and route and tab the frame. Whole job is about 45 minutes to an hour.

I've seen worse than this by far, and even on a factory prep those levers often show a bit of the hole.

[Sinifar]

Jim -

Looked at the Adams Rite installation jig, but way too expensive for the few we do. Most of these 1850 to 4510 conversions we do are in holes which are there, so for the one or two a year, it isn't worth it. Worst ones are where a Tublite has died or worse a Detroit "Torpedo" lock has died. That gets to be fun to rework.

Just one other fun lock is the Armalite Telescopic Bolt Lock. Although I do carry the ESP replacement for those. AND yup I do a few a year - there are many really old storefronts around here which still use that thing.

The real problem lies in the fact that even a 7/8 backset is too wide for many of these old doors. Then what? Back in the 50s when most of these were made they were not standardized and every manufacturer had their own ideas of how big to make the door styles / rails. Thin was in and doors reflected that. I have saved tons of old, greasy, and chewed up torpedo locks, Tublite, and other odd ball locks which use peanut cylinders -- remember those? -- Pull the lock and reman the thing down here in the shop and get the lock back to them. It works, but how long is that door going to last? I have seen many a cracked door welded back up, yes they are aluminum, and one wonders just how long that is going to last.

Just remember, many small town people don't throw stuff away, they try to get it to work as long as they can. The expense of replacing a whole store front is more than most of these "downtown" small town businesses can afford. SO one does what they can for them and moves on.

Quick story on that -- LAST winter I got a call from a cheap landlord. It seems that the door lock was broken, they could not unlock it. SO I went over there and had a look, it was a Tublite, if you remember, this is a 7/8 throw solid bolt, about 1 high by about 3/4 wide -- needless to say it was jammed tight. Now what? Looking at the door / frame / and knowing it was about 20 below and this was downtown in the very old section of town a light went on.

The lock could work ---- but ---- the door was frost heaved up by the sill jamming it upwards. A large bar was inserted on the top and I pulled down, actually hung my weight on the thing and had the landlord throw the bolt. It lock now suddenly works! Ground the pocket on the latch higher and this problem was solved. Just another day in the frozen tundra!

Mark

[cledry]

Glad I don't live in a small town. Well except for the traffic and crime problems.

We swap a new door in generally. Usually with a Roton. The ESP replacements are junk. Occasionally people won't spend the money but there are plenty who do.

[MatrixBlackRock]

Using the ones they used here, the lock gang is slightly turned to match the bevel of the door, as it is attached to that. Thus the lock cylinder sticks out. Solution would be to bend / twist / the mounting tabs or somehow shim the gang to be square with the door.

Dumb arsed question, having a hung a few wooden residential doors, I understand the need to bevel a wooden door on the latch side, but it seems by your statement, commercial aluminum storefront doors are also extruded beveled on the latch side.

Is that true?

Wayne

[dll932]

Glad I don't live in a small town. Well except for the traffic and crime problems.

We swap a new door in generally. Usually with a Roton. The ESP replacements are junk. Occasionally people won't spend the money but there are plenty who do.

ICK. Whenever possible I would replace them with an Adams Rite bolt, if possible.

[Sinifar]

Using the ones they used here, the lock gang is slightly turned to match the bevel of the door, as it is attached to that. Thus the lock cylinder sticks out. Solution would be to bend / twist / the mounting tabs or somehow shim the gang to be square with the door.

Dumb arsed question, having a hung a few wooden residential doors, I understand the need to bevel a wooden door on the latch side, but it seems by your statement, commercial aluminum storefront doors are also extruded beveled on the latch side.

Is that true?

Wayne

Some are flat, some are beveled, and some are round noses. Take some time and examine a lot of doors, You will note when there is a beveled plate on the lock gang, the door is "angled". When there is a flat plate it is not. AND the round plate is self explanatory. Store front locks come in all sorts of configurations, back sets, to 1 1/2 inches, and I have seen a lot of everything. Although today most are 1 1/8 inch, with older ones being 31/32.

AS far as replacing Tublite locks with Adams Rite, the door is not think enough even for the 7/8 nor the "special" AR lock (4070 series) which looks like this one. This is a problem with old doors. I know that in time somebody will replace them, but not now. Many Detroit Torpedo locks can be changed out with a 7/8 AR lock, but you have a long install because these locks are usually have an offset bolt. AND I guess worse, many torpedo locks have peanut cylinder locks. You do remember those?

Today, if the Ledger is right we will be seeing more "smart phone locks". Many including Kaba, Alarm Lock and a ton of others are developing locks which will work with this technology. Our job will be parts replacers and installers I guess. For all the quotes we send out on all stand alone access control, and for all the times I dragged out my mounted locks, we get very few bites. One cannot blame me for not trying.

LIKE this job - I quoted it, but as usual somebody else gave them a lower price, and price point is all that matters, not a quality install, nor having ALL THE PARTS to make it work, like a cylinder.

Finally, I guarantee with all the generations of keys in this church and this really old keying, trying to get all the keys to work will be a challenge. We do it all the time, it compromises security a bit, but who has an R-D1 key on their ring anyway? This isn't Schlage or Kwikset.

Sinifar