Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules
You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 9 Apr 2015 4:29

Image

Image

Image

I've been sent these pictures of a safe that may be for sale. Looks like there's a key too but I'm not sure. The owner should have the key and the combination. It's in an office at the first floor that is being sold so the're selling all the furniture. I'm going to make an offer to buy this safe. Approx dimensions are: 60 cm x 45 cm x 140 cm. It may have been bought in 1970 - 1980.
The Doria 3 may be the actual equivalent of this old model.
I have 3 questions: 1) how much does this beast weight? 2) what's its approximate value? 3) how much could cost moving it to my garage, in the same city of this office?

I really don't need a safe, but heck, who doesn't want one?

Thanks :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby billdeserthills » 9 Apr 2015 11:44

I honestly think You should call a safe moving company and ask for a quote, I would also see if they know how much this safe weighs. Then call a moving company and explain that you want the safe moved.
I have used actual safe moving companies before and the last one charged me $300 to do the same job the moving company did for half the price. Out here in the states safe movers usually charge a "port to port" fee, which means from the moment they leave their business until the moment they return, You are paying them.

The last time I paid a safe moving company, they took the new Amsec BF series safe that was damaged during delivery out of my home and replaced it with the same exact safe, (which was an undamaged replacement) this took them a half hour, even though I had done the same thing originally with the help of my girlfriend in 15 minutes. They charged me $300 for their time.
billdeserthills
 
Posts: 3827
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 21:11
Location: Arizona

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby kwoswalt99- » 9 Apr 2015 14:11

Hi,
Since your safe is just a tad smaller than the Doria 3, I would expect that it weighs just a tad less than 700 kg.
Kyle
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 14 Apr 2015 4:37

Thanks for the suggestions, once I know if the safe can be mine I'll call a moving man and ask him a quote.

A quick update: this morning I had the pleasure to see the safe in person.
In these 40 years of service the lock has never been inspected by a tech. The boss was not present so I couldn't ask him if the safe was still for sale and its price.

It's 125 cm tall, 58 wide and 50 thick. I've tried to shake it an it moved just a little but it was still resting on the floor, so I was not able to lift one side. It may be bolted to the ground.

While I was there I was very excited, and spent 10 minutes on my knees spinning the lock. The dial has some play and makes some noises, like it's dragging against something, but it's barely noticeable. It has 3 wheels and contact points are at 5 and at 13 and something. I did a super quick "all wheels left" checking every 5 numbers, just to see if I was lucky. I noticed an interesting area at 80 but then checked every increment around it and found it was just a low uniform area. Then the person that let me enter to see and measure the safe came back and I had to leave.

I'll keep you updated :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 22 May 2015 9:14

I just got a call from them. They threw the safe away with everything that was in the office. They didn't want to sell it because it was closed and they couldn't find the key any more.

:cry:
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby kwoswalt99- » 22 May 2015 10:41

femurat wrote:I just got a call from them. They threw the safe away with everything that was in the office. They didn't want to sell it because it was closed and they couldn't find the key any more.

:cry:

That's too bad. I was hoping to see what kind of key lock was on there. I wonder if it was a kromer. That wasn't the only one though, there's probably lots of other safes out there. :) Are safes hard to find in Italy? I would think that there's probably some really nice old ones over there.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby GWiens2001 » 22 May 2015 22:44

femurat wrote:I just got a call from them. They threw the safe away with everything that was in the office. They didn't want to sell it because it was closed and they couldn't find the key any more.

:cry:


And what would poor Femurat do if he got a lock with no key? It would take you... what... five minutes, tops? Under a minute if it were pin tumbler? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Sorry you did not get that safe, and that it went to waste. Oh well. Maybe next time you will get one.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
User avatar
GWiens2001
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: 3 Sep 2012 16:24
Location: Arizona, United States

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby Raymond » 23 May 2015 0:31

I really have a hard time believing they would just throw it away without knowing if there was anything inside. Look for a salvage place that might have received it or ask one of the ex-employees who moved the stuff out. With a little investigation you might find that one of the people took it home. It probably has old uncle Pete's 2 million dollar stamp collection and all of last months betting tickets.

Better luck next time.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
Raymond
 
Posts: 1357
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 23:34
Location: Far West Texas

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 25 May 2015 4:04

Well, encouraged by your replies I called them again and I was told the moving company was not able to take the safe away. Two people went there with a cart but the safe was too heavy and they could not lift it. It was not bolted to the floor because they moved it a little but were not able to lift it with the "soft wheel" cart they had. I wasn't there to see so don't have other info.
They took away everything else in the office but the safe. They'll came back with a "hard wheel" cart to lift the safe and take it to the dumpster.

The nice thing is I can go there again and inspect the safe further in the next days. Who knows, I may be able to play with it a little and convince them to let me have it. At this point I'm more worried about moving it... so this visit may convince me I don't want it.

Cheers :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby GWiens2001 » 25 May 2015 9:49

fingers crossed

Keep us informed!

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
User avatar
GWiens2001
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: 3 Sep 2012 16:24
Location: Arizona, United States

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 26 May 2015 8:27

Image

Image

This morning I went to that office and was allowed to stay there a couple hours. I wanted to manipulate the combo lock first and then, if succeed, ask them to look for the key again.
I started by counting the wheels and confirmed they were three. Checked contact points around 50 and they were at 5 and at 13 and a half.
I choose the all wheels left every two increments approach.
Needless to say I was a bit nervous and, as you can see from the first part of the first graph, I wrote the numbers wrong: I wrote from zero to five instead of from zero to ten. The reading were right, in fact after a dozen readings I was at 24 and decided I already had my interesting area and it was better to check that. Best scenario I could have found one number. Worst scenario I had to start again, but it was a win anyway because I like clear graphs and this one was already screwed up.

I started again with all wheels left, from zero to ten, checking both contact points at every increment.
I confirmed there was a very interesting area, a gate, at 6.5 - 7 Left.
I dialed the test combos to find which wheel it was on and was a bit confused. The test with a higher number suggested the gate may be on wheel #2 or #3. The test with a lower number suggested the gate may be on wheel #2. I was a bit confused by this result, but the gate was there for sure.
I choose to park wheel #2 at this gate, and to park wheel #1 there too. This way I could have found quickly the gate on wheel #3. Then it was just a matter of brute forcing wheel #1.

The gate I found was on wheel #2, so before starting to map wheel #3, I did a quick test to be sure to find the center of the gate while dialing Right. I checked just the left contact point, with all wheels right, between 10 and 4. I found the gate center was 5.5-6 Right.

I've been there for less than 40 minutes and I already had one number. I was very happy.
I started graph #2 with wheels 1 and 2 at 5.5-6 right and mapped wheel #3 around left, starting at 6.
Something strange was happening while I was moving away from 6: the contact points were widening. By the time I was at 20 I was thinking about starting over again. I decided to continue to map wheel #3 anyway. It was a quick process and I could have found its gate Sure it could have been just a waste of time, but it was little time.
After a few minutes I was at 36 and found a strange click while passing the contact point at 5... I went on and the dial was stuck. I couldn't believe it, I had already opened it!
I tried to force the dial a little to be sure it was not just resisting, and it was stuck at 95. I slowly went back to 10 and went again at 95 and the dial was stuck again.
I felt very very happy and couldn't believe it. I was worried to move the dial, in case I screw up something, but I had to try.
Dialed the first two wheels at Right 6 and then moved the third at Left 36. Back to zero and it opened again!
It took less than one hour, including a quick phone call I received while I was starting.

Image

So I left the dial stuck at 95 and put a piece of tape on it and wrote "Don't touch". I asked for the key and they confirmed they don't have it.
I'll probably be allowed to go there again to pick the lever lock. Now they think I can open the safe so they can get their papers and documents back. Then they may give me the safe... if I manage to move it away without damaging the floor or the stairs. I'll think about this later, now I'd like to open it.
The problem is I have limited experience with lever locks. Here are a couple of pictures of the keyhole, I wrote the approximate dimensions in millimeters in red. It's quite deep, like 8-10 cm (4 inches).
Does anybody have an idea about what lock could be there? What are my options?

Image

Image

Thanks for any suggestion :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby kwoswalt99- » 26 May 2015 13:33

I have seen a Lips safe with Kromer locks that looked similar. So that's what I'm betting.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby GWiens2001 » 26 May 2015 13:48

kwoswalt99- wrote:I have seen a Lips safe with Kromer locks that looked similar. So that's what I'm betting.


It has an S&G dial on it.

Gordon

EDIT - was informed that Kromer was a reference to the key lock, not the combination lock. :oops: my mistake.
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
User avatar
GWiens2001
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: 3 Sep 2012 16:24
Location: Arizona, United States

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby femurat » 11 Jun 2015 8:14

I went there today because I was informed a safe technician was going to open it. I stood there while he worked on the safe.
He made a 12 mm diameter hole in a precise location, with just a hand drill and many many drill bits. Took him 2 hours. Then the handle turned and the safe opened. I've been told he charged 350 euro.

When I told him that I manipulated open the combo lock he was shocked, and even broke the drill bit he was using. He didn't believe me at the beginning. But then I explained my hobby and the process I used to open the lock and he changed his mind. I asked him, an experienced safe tech that works in the field since the '80, if there's market for manipulating open dial locks or lever locks. He answered he's never learned it because it requires too much time to learn and to practice, while drilling is quick and easy.
He was a very nice person and I invited him to eat lunch together. It was a pleasure to listen to his stories about safes.

Since there was no key, I got the lever lock as a present. Now the safe has a big hole and lost its charm, but he told me that if I want it in my garage he'll be able to move it there for me for 200 euro. He'll repair it for another 200 euro. Now that's broken, the company that own the safe will probably trash it so I could get it for free. Guess what? I'm just keeping the lock. Not because I don't want to invest 400 euro in a safe that's worth 2000, but because there's no room for it in my garage. That's what my girlfriend thinks, so it must be true.

Cheers :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: LIPS VAGO safe with S&G lock I may get

Postby kwoswalt99- » 11 Jun 2015 11:32

What brand of lock was it?
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Next

Return to This Old Safe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 1 guest