Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apart

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apart

Postby GWiens2001 » 23 May 2015 1:27

Making Keys for Best SFIC Cores Without Disassembling the Core

Over time, have seen several people asking how to go about making keys for SFIC cores when you don't have the tools to properly take apart and reassemble the cores.

While there are methods of improvising tools which have been discussed, this post will take a different angle on the job. The only tools needed are blanks in the correct keyway, a fine point marker, a shim from a security tag, a micrometer, and, finally, a file to cut the keys.

Unlike most of my threads, this will not have a lot of pictures.

First, get a shim from a security tag.

Image

Yes, that one is ready for replacement. But it still did the job. :D

First, lay your shim on top of the core from the back end of the core. Align the front edge of the shim with the back of the first pin. Now use your fine point marker to make a mark at the back of each pin (based on the caps).

Image

This is so you can be sure that you have not only located each pin location, but you also know when you have shimmed every pin stack.

Now shim the first pin. Remember, with an SFIC lock, the bittings are numbered from the tip of the key. In this case, placed the shim at the control shear line from the back of the core. A pick or a key blank is used to move the pins up and down until the shear line is reached, at which point the shim will move in until it is stopped by the next pin stack.

Image

Once you have shimmed the first pin, keep going until you have shimmed all pin stacks on the shear line you are shimming.

Image

Now that you have shimmed the shear line you want a key made for, what do you do next? Make five depth keys, with only the first bitting (at the tip of the key) cut. Have the depths be for every even bitting depth. (0, 2, 4, 6 and 8 ). The micrometer will help you get accurate depths. Will explain why no odd depths in a moment.

Make sure you do not have a ramp between the first bitting and the tip of the key. This is important.

Hold the depth key alongside the top of the core, lining it up with where the key would normally stop if it were put into the keyhole normally. Mark the front edge of each pin as shown by the caps.

Now take a marker and mark the leading edges of the depth keys. You are now ready to start decoding the key for the shear line. :D

Slide the depth key cut to an 8 depth into the lock until it is stopped by the pin. Wiggle it slightly. (There is no need to tension the key before wiggling. We are not impressioning the lock).

If the key will not go into the lock far enough to reach your first mark, then you are done - it is a 9 depth.

How do we know this? Because a 9 depth can not be raised above a 9 depth since the shim won't let the pin rise above a 9. If it was an 8 depth, you would see the key go in far enough to reach the first mark, then stop. If it is a cut that is higher than an 8, the key will stop after the mark for the first pin.

If the key can go all the way to the first pin mark on the 8 depth key, pull out the key and look face-on to the front of the key. If you see a mark further up the ramp after the depth cut, then try to find the depth key that is closest to that depth.

Assuming the 8 goes in past that first pin mark, then grab and try the six depth key. If the key won't go in far enough to reach the first mark, then it is a 7 cut , since an 8 fits too deep, and a six would let you reach the first mark.

Repeat the process until you find the correct depth for the pin closest to the keyway entrance. Write that bitting depth down.

Next, remove the key, then pull the shim rearward until the pin stack closest to the keyway entrance snaps down.

You are now set up for the next pin stack. Repeat the above tests to find the correct bitting for each remaining pin location.

When finished, you will have the direct bitting for your core. Now use your micrometer and file to file a key for your lock.

Good luck!

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
User avatar
GWiens2001
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: 3 Sep 2012 16:24
Location: Arizona, United States

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby femurat » 23 May 2015 1:51

This is a very creative way to decode a lock. Great easy trick.
You just need to edit the post and add a space between the 8 and the ) because it turned into a 8)

Cheers :)
User avatar
femurat
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 9:06
Location: Italy

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby tomasfuk » 23 May 2015 2:45

Yes, very nice.
Just another option: if you are in situation that you have a shimmed cylinder and calipers, you can measure the first and last key pins directly. And you have a good chance to measure the second and the before-last pins too if they are not smaller than the neighbour. The only additional instrument for doing that is a needle or another shim.
Veni, vidi, relinquo. Vale!
tomasfuk
 
Posts: 207
Joined: 19 Apr 2015 2:35

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby tomasfuk » 23 May 2015 3:02

And an additional option.
When you shimmed the cylinder, you can put a thin firm wire through the plug (a needle is perfect) and see what is the biggest size of key pin in it. Maybe you will not need all 5 detective keys then :D
Veni, vidi, relinquo. Vale!
tomasfuk
 
Posts: 207
Joined: 19 Apr 2015 2:35

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby kwoswalt99- » 23 May 2015 9:07

I wish I would have done something like this before I disassembled mine. I had to recap it in an unorthodox way.
Image
Maybe you could shim whichever shearline, mark depth cuts on a wire or nail, and decode it through the holes on the bottom. I think someone already suggested this before.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby UnlockingBoredom » 23 May 2015 11:03

Gordon,
Genious! thank you for the write up.... as soon as you mentioned the depth keys and a shim I knew what you were getting at.
Now all I need to do is find some depth keys for the Best SFIC. I havent been able to find any on Ebay or any of the lockpicking sites and a local locksmith will try to charge me $9.00 per key (I aleady asked around) just to cut them and that doesnt include the cost of the keys themselves.

I will have to ask my key making friend if he has a code cutter and tell him he has to cut me depth keys for any type of lock he will have me work on as payment... :D
User avatar
UnlockingBoredom
 
Posts: 297
Joined: 15 Mar 2015 18:56
Location: Somewhere in O Re Gun

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby UnlockingBoredom » 23 May 2015 13:48

I dont have an EDIT button on my previous post so I will make a new one..

Just so I am sure what you are talking about I will use kwoswalt99's picture...

Image

The depth keys you are talking about are just the first pin (from tip) and the rest are left at 0.
In the picture we see Walts filed key with a slight ramp on the tip before the cuts bottom where as the factory cut key's first cut has no ramp to try to raise the key any higher then the depth of the first cut.

And to make either a "Open key" or a "Control key" you shim what ever sheer line you are wanting a key for..

I hope I am correct in my analysis..
User avatar
UnlockingBoredom
 
Posts: 297
Joined: 15 Mar 2015 18:56
Location: Somewhere in O Re Gun

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby kwoswalt99- » 23 May 2015 14:16

UnlockingBoredom wrote:I dont have an EDIT button on my previous post so I will make a new one..

Just so I am sure what you are talking about I will use kwoswalt99's picture...

Image

The depth keys you are talking about are just the first pin (from tip) and the rest are left at 0.
In the picture we see Walts filed key with a slight ramp on the tip before the cuts bottom where as the factory cut key's first cut has no ramp to try to raise the key any higher then the depth of the first cut.

And to make either a "Open key" or a "Control key" you shim what ever sheer line you are wanting a key for..

I hope I am correct in my analysis..

That seems correct to me. I think that's what Gordon originally intended.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby kwoswalt99- » 23 May 2015 14:42

Great write up by the way, seems like a good idea, except that I don't think you could shim some of the old ones I have. Maybe if I cleaned them out really good, it might work. Even on some new ones though, the control sleeve fits really tight, and I'm not sure that it's possible to shim them. Also, could you remind me where these security tags are from, and how thick they are.
kwoswalt99-
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: 17 Mar 2015 15:35
Location: Somewhere.

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby tomasfuk » 23 May 2015 15:27

kwoswalt99- wrote:...how thick they are.
and what material are they of pls.
I think that max. 50 µm (0.002") can be inserted into most modern cylinders.
Veni, vidi, relinquo. Vale!
tomasfuk
 
Posts: 207
Joined: 19 Apr 2015 2:35

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby MatrixBlackRock » 23 May 2015 16:26

UnlockingBoredom wrote:I havent been able to find any on Ebay or any of the lockpicking sites and a local locksmith will try to charge me $9.00 per key (I aleady asked around) just to cut them and that doesnt include the cost of the keys themselves.


Hit this e-Bay seller up, he was offering BEST depth keys, in many sections, but no one was buying.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-IC-CORES-D ... 3cf5eb342f

Wayne
MatrixBlackRock
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 25 Mar 2015 8:43

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby jeffmoss26 » 23 May 2015 19:33

nice writeup, Gordon.
I can happily vouch for that ebay seller, he has helped me quite a bit over the years!
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
jeffmoss26
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: 13 Jan 2012 15:01
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby UnlockingBoredom » 24 May 2015 11:54

I missed the auction by 2 hours last night... dang it!
Hopefully he will have another at some point and I can get a set of the SFIC keys for the A key way.
User avatar
UnlockingBoredom
 
Posts: 297
Joined: 15 Mar 2015 18:56
Location: Somewhere in O Re Gun

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby GWiens2001 » 24 May 2015 13:29

UnlockingBoredom wrote:I missed the auction by 2 hours last night... dang it!
Hopefully he will have another at some point and I can get a set of the SFIC keys for the A key way.


You might try sending him a request through eBay.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
User avatar
GWiens2001
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: 3 Sep 2012 16:24
Location: Arizona, United States

Re: Making a Key for a BEST SFIC without Taking the Core Apa

Postby metroid9824 » 25 May 2015 0:02

I usually just email Tim (papa777) directly, bestcores <AT> mchsi <DOT> com, and he'll invoice you via PayPal. But if you just need A2 depth keys, CLK Supplies has them for about the same price as Tim.
Last edited by Squelchtone on 25 May 2015 8:35, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: email address edited to help stop spam harvesters.
metroid9824
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 2 Jun 2008 18:33
Location: Ithaca, NY

Next

Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 16 guests