Low Cost Restricted Key Systems

[gswimfrk]

Hey LP101 community,

I'm looking for a low cost Restricted Key system for our rental properties. Some of our legacy Kwiksets have given in and we are taking this opportunity to slap in some B500 sgl hopefully with key controlled cylinders we can maintain in house. Called our supply house and they have run out of GMS MX contracts... was hoping to use this :/. Any readers have a cost effective system to reccomend? I prefer ones that have can be used with the standard .003 PKs.

Alternatively, any Houston locksmiths who may have a solution, pm me.

Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

[Moved from Locks to Locksmith Supplies]

[MBI]

When I saw your topic I immediately thought of the GMS MX line but after reading your post I see the problem there.

Have you considered trying a different supplier for the GMS locks?
Been a while since I've looked but I've bought them from Intermountain Lock before.
Their main warehouse is right here in town where I am, but I've sometimes ordered from their other locations and shipping has always been reasonable.
It's the lowest cost line of locks with a restricted keyway that I've seen.

Probably not going to be a solution to your problem, but there is also Marks High Security. It's a licensed copy of the Scorpion locks. It's a good price for a high security lock, with a very low buy-in to get a keyway, but it's a big jump in price compared to GMX since you're not just getting key control but also high security. So... with that in mind I'm not even sure why I'm mentioning it. I don't know, maybe because at the last IMLSS expo they had such an amazing sale that I almost signed up to carry them. 20% discount and only had to buy $500 worth of locks and keys to get my own keyway, exclusive to something like a 50 mile radius from my ZIP code. Not the best high-security lock out there, but would have given me a relatively low cost high-security option to offer. Whatever you decide to go with, check and see if your supplier has an annual expo. If they do you can sometimes get pretty amazing deals.

[gswimfrk]

Hey MBI, thanks for your reply!

Yeah, the GMS MX system is a great fit. I'll give Intermountain Lock a Call. I'm not really sure how it works but are distributors are able to sell restricted systems outside their geographic jurisdiction and do they sell to property management companies?

My distributor has given me a quote on CX5, I love the system and I think it's great but for our application, the buy in they are offering is just far too much for us to justify. I'm quite sure the CX5, Scorpion, and Marks Hi Security are all from the same manufacturer? I just installed all medeco's purchased through an MSC on my cousin's house and I'm kicking myself for not starting a CX5 account and popping those on her home.

I heard Ilco offers some proprietary keyways on schlage specs, I'm not sure if anyone has heard of these systems and know which distributors offer them. Also LSDA, US Lock, and General??? Anyone work with these before?

Ideally our buy in $500 or less for 20-50 or so cylinders and 50-100 keyblanks with low/no recurrence.

[MBI]

I'm not really sure how it works but are distributors are able to sell restricted systems outside their geographic jurisdiction and do they sell to property management companies?

I know with a lot of their restricted keyway stuff, IMLSS has their own stock keyway. With the way they shift inventory between their warehouses I doubt they have a different one for each of their warehouse locations. They do have a minimum buy-in for anything like that, but it's usually much lower than if you went direct to the factory to get your own keyway. The downside being that any locksmith who does a buy-in with them for their stock keyway will have access to the same blanks. They're expected to only service their own customers with it and not poach from other locksmiths since the whole point is that it's a RESTRICTED keyway, but I don't know how strictly that's enforced. I guess if you want that higher level of exclusivity you just have to pay more to get your own keyway for your region.

As for setting up an account and for who they'll sell to, you just have to call. They do specifically state on their website and on the front door to their locations that they are NOT a retail facility and do not sell to the public. They are a wholesaler who only sells to dealers. But if you have a business license and an EIN number, I doubt you'll have any problems getting set up with an account to be able to order from them. I've seen institutional locksmiths in there who buy a lot of stuff, but are still only in charge of a single facility. I don't have a storefront since all my work was mobile. I just gave them a copy of my business license and sales tax reseller form. I didn't want a credit line and just set up my account as COD which sped things up so I was placing my first order in about five minutes.

My distributor has given me a quote on CX5, I love the system and I think it's great but for our application, the buy in they are offering is just far too much for us to justify. I'm quite sure the CX5, Scorpion, and Marks Hi Security are all from the same manufacturer? ...

Ideally our buy in $500 or less for 20-50 or so cylinders and 50-100 keyblanks with low/no recurrence.

I believe Scorpion and CX-5 are the same thing. They used to stamp "Scorpion" on the locks, now they stamp them "CX-5" but I forget why they changed the name. In my inventory I have some locks stamped each way but all in the same boxes from the same place. I got what remains of my inventory back during the time they were switching over the names.

I don't think Marks and CX-5 made at the same factory, and the keyways differ between Marks and CX-5 from what I've seen, but being made from the same licensed patent, side by side they're essentially the same thing. I know that normally the buy-in his higher, but I seem to recall a show special on the Marks as lower than the CX-5 with a buy-in of something in the $250-$500 range if I'm remembering it right. I'm not sure the exact figure but I recall it blew me away for how low it was. If you can't get your buy-in low enough, maybe contact the Marks factory rep directly. If it means the difference of getting a new account or not, maybe he has the authority to push deals through with a buy-in that's more comparable to the sale that I saw rather than their normal rates.

[gswimfrk]

Thanks again for the super helpful information and advice!

I'll definitely give IMLSS a call.

I'll check around for Scorpion/CX5/HiSecurity Prices, maybe we are able to use that system on our properties at a reasonable price point.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Hey MBI, thanks for your reply!

Yeah, the GMS MX system is a great fit. I'll give Intermountain Lock a Call. I'm not really sure how it works but are distributors are able to sell restricted systems outside their geographic jurisdiction and do they sell to property management companies?

My distributor has given me a quote on CX5, I love the system and I think it's great but for our application, the buy in they are offering is just far too much for us to justify. I'm quite sure the CX5, Scorpion, and Marks Hi Security are all from the same manufacturer? I just installed all medeco's purchased through an MSC on my cousin's house and I'm kicking myself for not starting a CX5 account and popping those on her home.

I heard Ilco offers some proprietary keyways on schlage specs, I'm not sure if anyone has heard of these systems and know which distributors offer them. Also LSDA, US Lock, and General??? Anyone work with these before?

Ideally our buy in $500 or less for 20-50 or so cylinders and 50-100 keyblanks with low/no recurrence.

LSDA's "restricted" keyway doesn't require any sort of buy in. Then again, any locksmith with an account at IDN can get the blanks and potentially service your accounts and you can buy the blanks online.

Might also consider Best's Coremax. Patent protected until 2027 and now available through distribution. No buy in either. You buy the blanks, cores, and housings. Hopefully you have a way to code cut an A2 system. If so, you'll be good to go. I think I pay ~$20 a core. Key blanks are ~$3 and you can pick up generic housings for $12-15.

[gswimfrk]

Ahh yes, I have heard of the LSDA locksmith keyway but not to happy that the keyblanks are being sold on ebay.

As for the Coremax, who distributes that product line. Don't I have to purchase directly from Stanley Security Solutions?

Thanks!

[Tyler J. Thomas]

As for the Coremax, who distributes that product line. Don't I have to purchase directly from Stanley Security Solutions?

Thanks!

I literally said it's available through distribution, i.e. Clark Security or Sec Lock. Stanley stopped selling direct in 2012-2013.

[globallockytoo]

Another thought on creating a "type" of restricted key system...although it is not really restricted, just that most key cutters wont be able to cut keys that work. Locksmiths on the other hand would know this trick...

When creating system keys, file the bottom of each operating key before keying.

When the key sits in the barrel (plug), it naturally uses the bottom of the cylinder to guage height, but when the key is put into a regular duplicator, it cuts the keys too deep.

Not sure if I explained it quite right. Comprende?

[GWiens2001]

Another thought on creating a "type" of restricted key system...although it is not really restricted, just that most key cutters wont be able to cut keys that work. Locksmiths on the other hand would know this trick...

When creating system keys, file the bottom of each operating key before keying.

When the key sits in the barrel (plug), it naturally uses the bottom of the cylinder to guage height, but when the key is put into a regular duplicator, it cuts the keys too deep.

Not sure if I explained it quite right. Comprende?

Think you mean after filing, the key still sits the keyway the same due to the wards of the keyway. But when placed on a duplicator, the key with the bottom of the blade filed off sits lower in the vise of the key machine, so the duplicate is cut deeper compared to the warding.

Is that explaining it correctly?

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

Another thought on creating a "type" of restricted key system...although it is not really restricted, just that most key cutters wont be able to cut keys that work. Locksmiths on the other hand would know this trick...

When creating system keys, file the bottom of each operating key before keying.

When the key sits in the barrel (plug), it naturally uses the bottom of the cylinder to guage height, but when the key is put into a regular duplicator, it cuts the keys too deep.

Not sure if I explained it quite right. Comprende?

Think you mean after filing, the key still sits the keyway the same due to the wards of the keyway. But when placed on a duplicator, the key with the bottom of the blade filed off sits lower in the vise of the key machine, so the duplicate is cut deeper compared to the warding.

Is that explaining it correctly?

Gordon

Bill Phillips described it that way in his locksmithing book. I think this method would be much better than shimming, because it won't affect operation of the key.

[Squelchtone]

... I think this method would be much better than shimming, because it won't affect operation of the key.

I am afraid it is not the whole truth.
1) the key will be more prone to bending/breaking.
2) the key will wiggle in the keyway more, thus the cylinder will wear out sooner.

P.S. I could not edit my post, thus I have posted it corrected again.

[stainless steel]

Woudent work in sweden the top pins woud fall in the botom a litle bit and so fort wering the top pins out

[kwoswalt99-]

Woudent work in sweden the top pins woud fall in the botom a litle bit and so fort wering the top pins out

Oh, I never thought of that, maybe this wouldn't work as great as I thought.

... I think this method would be much better than shimming, because it won't affect operation of the key.

I am afraid it is not the whole truth.
1) the key will be more prone to bending/breaking.
2) the key will wiggle in the keyway more, thus the cylinder will wear out sooner.

P.S. I could not edit my post, thus I have posted it corrected again.

I don't think shaving just a bit off bottom would really weaken the key any. I will try this though, and see if it works.