Keyed Knob Set Lock help

[streak]

Hi,
Been a member here for years but posting for the first time.

I have just started playing around with picking.
I bought a few locks from the local Habitat For Humanities Restore.
I have managed to rake them all and now I want to practice individual tumbler picking.
One of them is a tubular type lock, no name brand.
Key hole the one side with push button the other.
When I do the typical "which direction do I tension" test and tension anti-clockwise, raking the tumblers causes them to bind and on releasing they drop down.
This suggests I am tensioning the right way.
However after a lot of trying I could not open the lock. Pin one would bind perfectly and I would then move on to the others with no luck.
So I then did the clockwise test and could get no pins to bind. I still chose to try and pick while applying clockwise tension.
Lo and behold I managed to get it open. I don't know how as I could not detect any pin binding.

What is going on here?
Why is this lock going against the norms?
As a beginner I want to find a trusted method to chose the tension direction. This lock seems to break the rules?

Thanks.
Edited thread title to reflect actual lock type. GWiens2001

[kwoswalt99-]

You said you were raking this thing. How exactly are you raking a tubular lock? How are you tensioning it? Do you mean a lock like this? http://cache3.smarthome.com/images/70410.jpg Most locks will only open in one direction. In the U.S. it's usually clockwise. If it does open in either direction, in theory, it should pick in both directions, the binding order will just be different though.

[kwoswalt99-]

A little thread on picking direction http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=542 It doesn't mention tubular locks, but it still might be helpful. What type of lock is this? Is it in a padlock or cam lock or something else, and what is the button for?

[streak]

Thanks for the prompt reply.
Sorry for my poor terminology if I got it wrong.

This is the lock I am talking about

http://visual.merriam-webster.com/house ... r-lock.php

[kwoswalt99-]

Thanks, that cleared things up. Another thing you might want to think about, is that since it came from Restore, it is used, and probably needs lube. It might be gunked up, and messing with you.

[Squelchtone]

yeah, I've seen it called a "tubular deadbolt" before (at least when it is a deadbolt, and not a spring loaded latch mechanism like yours) they should just call it a North American deadbolt, since that format is pretty much only used here. I guess a good name for what you have is a keyed knob set. If it was just a bedroom knob with no key hole, it would be a passage set or privacy set if it has a button on the inside but no key on the outside.

In the past most vending machines, coke machines, cheap gun safes, etc used tubular t-handle cylinders, they look like this: http://i48.tinypic.com/2d14mxu.jpg (kwoswalt99- already linked a photo of a tubular cam lock as well)

I have stopped referring to tubular locks as coke machine locks as many other designs have become more popular and harder to pick. If you ever hear anyone mention an ACE II lock, that's a brand of tubular lock.

what is this typical "which direction do i turn" test? I'm not familiar with this.. on that kind of keyed knob set you should get the same results because the key can turn in either direction to lock or unlock the mechanism, so you should get the same pins lifting, and clicking back down whether you apply clockwise or counter-clockwise tensioning..

What pick set are you using to pick this, and are you using bottom of keyway tensioning or top of keyway. Spraying some lubricant into that lock may help you out if it looks like it hasn't been used in years.

happy picking,
Squelchtone

[streak]

I read somewhere that one way to test turn direction is to apply some torque using the wrench and rake the pins with a straight edge. When you release torque if you hear the pins reset then that's the turn direction.
I could easily detect this in this lock and started turning in the direction to no avail. I could see pin one binding perfectly.
In the other direction I could not get pin one to bind the same but did manage to pick the lock.
Makes no sense to me.
I will lubricate and see what happens.

If you say these should turn in either direction the I will persevere picking in the ant-clockwise direction and hopefully get it right.
By the way I could not get raking to work in either direction.

Thanks for the help.

[MatrixBlackRock]

If you ever hear anyone mention an ACE II lock, that's a brand of tubular lock. Squelchtone

In the security world the term Ace Lock was common slang for any tubular lock regardless of who built it, the only variation was the U.L. Ace which had telescoping pins doubling the number of pins per lock.

Somewhere I have an ACE pick, which is a rather simple device with thin levers that look like miniature tension bars spaced around the tube, an O-ring to hold them in place and a locking knob which would latch them down tight, literally once one got used to operating the thing an Ace lock could be picked nearly as fast as using a key and the locking knob allowed for using the pick to duplicate a new key.

Never seen one for a U.L. Ace though.

Wayne

[streak]

I have a set of picks from HPC (NDPK-32) and I am using their hook and rake picks for these locks.
I made a wiper blade tension wrench which I am using even though there were a bunch of them in the kit.
It's a nice feeling to use something home made.
I also plan to try and make a Bogota rake. The stainless I got from the wiper blades seems a little narrow (about 2.5mm) and I cant find any sweeper bristles.
I'll eventually get to it. I have the files and vise all ready.

I have tried tensioning both the top and the bottom of the keyway.

[streak]

I have been persevering and thanks to all of the good help here have made some good progress.

The knob set I have managed to SPP in both directions.
And the remaining three I have also now managed to SPP.
I am really getting the feel for the binding pins and the binding order.

Managed to get some slightly wider wiper blade inserts but still not wide enough to make myself a bogota rake.
I am also looking a trying to make a flat pry bar type tension tool for top of keyway use.
Having fun.

I also found someone who was an ex landlord selling 30 - 50 lock sets for about $50. May be fun but I then they may be all the cheaper types like I have now and the $50 could be spent on something more challenging?