Depth keys (didnt know where to put this one)

[MBI]

At the risk of rehashing some of what has been said above, here's my two cents:

I was taught it's best to always code cut SFIC keys, but if you're stuck without a code machine you can duplicate them if you're careful, have a good source key and a well calibrated duplicator.

However, since SFIC locks have tighter tolerances than household pin tumbler locks, when originating keys you should always code cut them to ensure the first generation key is as precise as possible for your customer. If you use D&S keys to originate a key, you're already introducing a certain level of error so duplicating that key is less likely to be successful than with a code cut key.

[UnlockingBoredom]

I have chatted with Tim and he sounds like he is very knowledgeable and will do some depth keys for me in any keyway I want. I will be getting them in the G keyway since I have 11 cores in G.

Thanks for all the replies!!!

Oh, one more question... Has anyone successfully impressioned a BEST 7 pin IC core? I tried it once and it didnt work out. Its been the only thing I havent been able to pick or impression

[UnlockingBoredom]

MBI, good advice!!!
Im not cutting keys for anyone but myself so no worries there... I do need a much better key machine to cut Best keys though.. My little micrometric had been doing GREAT for copying my house keys and lock keys but it does not have a fine adjustment for depth so I will most likely wait until I get to Oregon in a few months.. my nephew is a locksmith so I will be able to use his machine until I can sell enough stuff to afford my own.

I learned something about buying depth keys from guys on ebay though (not Tim) I purchased 2 sets of American depth keys.. AM3 5 pin and AM7 6 pin. The 6 pin keys are perfect depth (I measure all my depth keys to make sure they are perfect before using them. The AM3 keys though were .003 high which says to me that he had a customer come in with a warn out key and he adjusted his machine up .003 to make a new key that will work and before resetting his machine he made my depth keys...

When I get access to a good machine I will buy 8 AM3 keys and set the machine down .003 and recut the keys so they will be good and then use the new keys to cut down the old ones.... 2 sets are better then 1 I guess..

[cledry]

MBI, good advice!!!
Im not cutting keys for anyone but myself so no worries there... I do need a much better key machine to cut Best keys though.. My little micrometric had been doing GREAT for copying my house keys and lock keys but it does not have a fine adjustment for depth so I will most likely wait until I get to Oregon in a few months.. my nephew is a locksmith so I will be able to use his machine until I can sell enough stuff to afford my own.

I learned something about buying depth keys from guys on ebay though (not Tim) I purchased 2 sets of American depth keys.. AM3 5 pin and AM7 6 pin. The 6 pin keys are perfect depth (I measure all my depth keys to make sure they are perfect before using them. The AM3 keys though were .003 high which says to me that he had a customer come in with a warn out key and he adjusted his machine up .003 to make a new key that will work and before resetting his machine he made my depth keys...

When I get access to a good machine I will buy 8 AM3 keys and set the machine down .003 and recut the keys so they will be good and then use the new keys to cut down the old ones.... 2 sets are better then 1 I guess..

Depth keys should be code cut so not sure of your theory about one set being .003" off. If they are making duplicates from a master set I would look elsewhere.

[JayTongue]

Oh, one more question... Has anyone successfully impressioned a BEST 7 pin IC core? I tried it once and it didnt work out. Its been the only thing I havent been able to pick or impression

I've thought about it, and it seems possible. The only difficulty (you know, besides the impressioning), would be to distinguish the two shear lines from each other. What I mean by this is that because with impressioning, you will initially begin with every cut at its highest possibility and work down, so you would first find a higher shearline, then cut down one depth and keep impressioning until you found the lower one. You would have no way to know which "working" position belongs to which shear line, so provided that there are no master wafers, one would be left (in a 7 pin lock) with 2^7, or 128 possible keys, among which only two would do anything for you.

[UnlockingBoredom]

I was looking at eBay and found 10 Best locks for sale with one working key and the key looks to be a home made or impressioned key

[UnlockingBoredom]

MBI, good advice!!!
Im not cutting keys for anyone but myself so no worries there... I do need a much better key machine to cut Best keys though.. My little micrometric had been doing GREAT for copying my house keys and lock keys but it does not have a fine adjustment for depth so I will most likely wait until I get to Oregon in a few months.. my nephew is a locksmith so I will be able to use his machine until I can sell enough stuff to afford my own.

I learned something about buying depth keys from guys on ebay though (not Tim) I purchased 2 sets of American depth keys.. AM3 5 pin and AM7 6 pin. The 6 pin keys are perfect depth (I measure all my depth keys to make sure they are perfect before using them. The AM3 keys though were .003 high which says to me that he had a customer come in with a warn out key and he adjusted his machine up .003 to make a new key that will work and before resetting his machine he made my depth keys...

When I get access to a good machine I will buy 8 AM3 keys and set the machine down .003 and recut the keys so they will be good and then use the new keys to cut down the old ones.... 2 sets are better then 1 I guess..

Depth keys should be code cut so not sure of your theory about one set being .003" off. If they are making duplicates from a master set I would look elsewhere.

Jim, I know they SHOULD be code cut but I do not believe that this person was using a code cutter at least on this set of keys. I purchased 4 sets of keys from him and they are all very good quality and at perfect depth (I check all my keys against a set I borrowed from a local locksmith) The last set I got from this guy checked out .003 up and that is the only thing I can think of as to why it is off. I really dont think his code cutter is off so he probably had a few orders and just made them by copying other sets on a duplicator. I think from now on I will get my S&D keys from papa777 (Tim)

On a side note (well rant!) I replied to an add on craigslist for a 044HD key machine within minutes (less then 3) the guy only wanted $200.00 for it and it looked in perfect condition. he sold it to someone else because they lived closer... aaahhh, why do I keep missing these?

[cledry]

It is easy to spot a code key from a duplicate with the naked eye.

[tomasfuk]

It is easy to spot a code key from a duplicate with the naked eye.

Tell which is a code key and which a duplicate (from another key with different coding).

(if you need a better resolution picture, here it is: http://i60.tinypic.com/2holj6r.jpg

[tomasfuk]

P.S. don't look at the groove at the tip of one of those keys - it has been done later.

[cledry]

Neither looks particular good but I would say the one on the left. All the code cut keys I have produced are far cleaner than either example you posted. The code keys generally do not have the same striations as a duplicate key does.

[UnlockingBoredom]

The code keys generally do not have the same striations as a duplicate key does.

I will check out the D&S keys I got to see if it has striations.

[tomasfuk]

Neither looks particular good but I would say the one on the left.

The left one is what?

All the code cut keys I have produced are far cleaner than either example you posted. The code keys generally do not have the same striations as a duplicate key does.

Congratulations, then you have your coding machine(s) in a perfect condition (what was not the case of the digital key cutting machine which produced the key from my picture).

As I understand, the striations have nothing to do with the principles of code cutting / copying. It's caused by vibrations, clearances, too fast key shifting, worn cutter etc. what is more common with key copiers.

[MatrixBlackRock]

Neither looks particular good but I would say the one on the left. All the code cut keys I have produced are far cleaner than either example you posted. The code keys generally do not have the same striations as a duplicate key does.

I think the confusion is the term "code cutting' with a mill versus punching a key to a code, keys punched on a properly calibrated machine will always look much cleaner and in my opinion work better the first time out, versus a key milled to a code.

Wayne

[cledry]

Neither looks particular good but I would say the one on the left. All the code cut keys I have produced are far cleaner than either example you posted. The code keys generally do not have the same striations as a duplicate key does.

I think the confusion is the term "code cutting' with a mill versus punching a key to a code, keys punched on a properly calibrated machine will always look much cleaner and in my opinion work better the first time out, versus a key milled to a code.

Wayne

True but that is not what I was referring to. My HPC machines all produce a cleaner cut than do any of our duplicators, no matter how slow we go or how many times we go over the key. I have used HPC, Framon and Ilco code machines for the past 30 years and used Rytan, Sager, Ilco, HPC, Dominion, Silca, Borkey, Bianchi machines and the results are always the same.

Try it yourself, cut a code key and some dupes, hold them together in your hand and I am fairly certain you can easily pick out the code key. Obviously it is the one that is different, but you can do the same test with just 2 keys.