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changing combination on unknown brand safe

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby dm567 » 28 Jul 2015 21:04

I have a 30 year old safe and don't have the change combination key for it. It isn't a Sargent and Greenleaf because the Sargent and Greenleaf key won't fit.

It has the picture of a knight's helmet on the dial. On the mechanism it says UL combination lock group 2 No.B504621.

What brand is it and where do I get a change combination key for it?

dom
dm567
 
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby Squelchtone » 28 Jul 2015 21:11

Hi,
a photo or two will really help us give you the right answer, could you upload a photo to http://tinypic.com or http://imgur.com and Paste the link in your reply?

If the change key hole is a circle with a flat bottom, then it's a LaGard 3330 lock, I have seen their part/serial numbers start with B.

Also, are you pretty familiar with the procedure in order to change the combination? Have you dialed the current combination to the change index located at about 11 o'clock on the dial ring and then tried to insert the change key into the back of the safe lock body?

Thanks,
Squelchtone

PS. does the dial look like one of these?
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby dm567 » 28 Jul 2015 23:49

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=nvl ... bhafRNVhBc

and

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=nvl ... bhajBNVhBc

I don't know if I did the pictures right. Let me know.

Yes, the dial looks like the second from the right with the helmet.

I do know how to change the code on a SandG. The SandG key I have won't fit this lock. Its too big.

Do I need to buy a special key for this lock?

thanks
dm567
 
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015 20:57

Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby dm567 » 28 Jul 2015 23:57

I meant 2nd one from the left and the one on the far right with the helmets.

I did a search. Is it the 1307 change key that I need? And I do it the same as on a SandG lock?

Are these LaGard Locks any good?
dm567
 
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015 20:57

Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby billdeserthills » 29 Jul 2015 0:07

I can't see enough of the change key hole to say
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby Squelchtone » 29 Jul 2015 6:48

We actually need a photo of the change key hole to help verify it, or just the whole back plate that the change key hole is on, not of that sticker. The sticker doesn't help much actually.

Yes, the Lagard locks are good and procedure is the same as most modern safe locks and you can google for the factory instruction sheet as well. Here's what Dr.Google found for me: http://www.mbausa.com/Files/LAGARD%203% ... anging.pdf

Lagard 3 wheel change keys are available on ebay for +/- $10 dollars. Here is one for $4.99 with free shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/231529388744

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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby dm567 » 29 Jul 2015 9:02

OK thanks

I'll post a picture of the key hole when I get home.

BTW is there any reason to change the whole lock on this safe to a group 1 and even a 1r? Do people really have their safes broken into in their home by people capable of manipulation. One of my safes was actually broken into but they used a diamond blade and cut a 12x12 hole in the back of it rather than mess with the combination lock. It a TL15 safe. I welded the piece they cut out back in and its still in use.

Dom
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby Squelchtone » 29 Jul 2015 10:57

dm567 wrote:OK thanks

I'll post a picture of the key hole when I get home.

BTW is there any reason to change the whole lock on this safe to a group 1 and even a 1r? Do people really have their safes broken into in their home by people capable of manipulation. One of my safes was actually broken into but they used a diamond blade and cut a 12x12 hole in the back of it rather than mess with the combination lock. It a TL15 safe. I welded the piece they cut out back in and its still in use.

Dom


Sounds like people already know you have nice safes and valuables. Invest in a monitored alarm system from alarm.com (they have authorized local installers) with land line and GSM cellular backup, and go to Coscto and get some CCTV cameras with a DVR locked in a secure cabinet so the hard drives don't get taken during a break in.

If this safe is at your home, watch out who knows that you have a TL-15 safe or all those guns or whatever you keep in it. Sounds like some bad actors already know about your home, floorplan, and your schedule.

If a government agency like the CIA is trying to get into your safe then yeah, a Kaba Mas X09 digital safe lock would be a good idea, but on a home gun safe, buying an S&G 8500 Group 1 is just a waste of $250 dollars. Group 1R is xray proof, most hoodlums dont carry around portable xray machines. Otherwise keep the safe lock you have, but you may want to have a local SAVTA safe technician (not just a random locksmith who also works on safes once in a while) check your safe to make sure it has a relocker, and if not, have them add one in. This way if someone tries to punch the safe lock via the dial spindle, at least the safe will lock up tight and they wont get far. I wouldn't worry about manipulation unless you have an easy to try out combination such as 10-20-30 or 25-50-75 or the safe is left unattended for days and weeks at a time. An alarm would help that.

Good luck,
Squelchtone
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby dm567 » 29 Jul 2015 16:06

Yes, after the break in I got ADT with Cellular and I also installed cctv cameras. So far so good. Only thing I didn't do that you suggested is get a lock box for the DVR.

Thanks for the advice about whether to upgrade the combination lock.

I've already ordered the LaGuard key. ONly 5 bucks. I'll give it a try.

thanks again
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby billdeserthills » 29 Jul 2015 22:25

If you run the dvr wires long enough, you can hide it up in the attic, or even between the walls, a realist fake dvr could be cheap insurance
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Re: changing combination on unknown brand safe

Postby Capt_Tom » 15 Aug 2015 15:40

I agree with Squelchtone.... I am a safe/vault technician, and ex-cop. Upgrading to an expensive lock is a moot point if they are using saws to cut holes in safes. Manipulators..... I do not know of any residential safe that has been hit recently by a manipulator. They (intruders) want to have guaranteed rewards for their risk. TRYING to manipulate a lock isn't a guaranteed reward. As mentioned, the alarm (WIRELESS) and cameras are a good investment... I agree a decoy DVD machine is good... and add that you can install a wire outside the house to look like a phone line (as in alarm) it can be a loop to a N/C circuit on your alarm panel. When cut, it can send an alarm over the wireless system.
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