Key Created for Yale Push Key Padlock

[MBI]

Excellent work Gordo! Very clear pics. Thanks for posting your results.

[Kheops]

Thanks Mr Wizard!
I did exactly like you said, and voilà:





Honestly I was really surprised to read that these old locks had security pins. I wouldn't had thought it was common so long ago...

The real trick was to use a piece of wood as a lever, it was SOOOO much easier than trying to tension with a rope tied to stairs. It gave me much more control.

Thanks again!

(Now to make a key! I was thinking of impressionning it with a soft/self-impressionable material and then cutting it by hand... makes sense?)

[MrWizard]

Kheops

I knew if you did what I said you would get it open.
Yes the trick is for sure to use a piece of wood as it doesn't mark up the lock.

Now that is is open you cannot impression it because the pins no longer move up into the lock body to get a blank key in it all the way but you can see how deep the pins are and file down something to get the first pin depth and if the second one is deeper you can get the depth for that one too. Easy to use a hook pick to feel the depth of each one and draw the pattern on a paper to record what you think it is. Then lock it back up and try to impression a key but it is not as easy as you might think.

It is easier to take it apart to hand file a key for it. The brass cap (the one that end of the shackle goes into) has a square hole on some you can use something to unscrew or like the one you see that Gordon is showing that is round then you can use a easy out tool in it or worst case grip it with something trying not to mess it up to unscrew it then slide the metal retainer back then the shackle with the cylinder attached will slide out but you MUST put a round 1/2 follower (rod) against the cylinder to push it out to keep the top pins from falling out. A wood dowel will work fine. Make sure you have the cylinder facing up not to drop the bottom pins out. There is no broaching as the key blank is flat no grooves on it or in the cylinder to hold the key up so you will have to hold the key blank level with the bottom of the cylinder as you hand file the key, you will see what I mean.

Putting it back together can be tricky as the metal retainer might not want to go into the grove on the shackle to allow the brass cap to be put back on right. if the shackle does NOT have spring pressure beginning to start to return as you screw that cap in then don't force it. Sometimes it screws right in but there are ones that I have had to lock it without it in place push the retainer into the groove try to hold it there and push the cylinder in turn the shackle out of the way just enough to get the cap on then screw the cap in. As you do you should feel the shackle begin to have spring tension again then screw it in all the way. Again you will see what I mean.

Sometimes after you put it back together you try the key it may work fine or you will have to jack it around to get it to open. This can mean one of two things. Either the cuts are a little too deep but I have had it where the tip end of the key the cuts are a little too high or spacing is off a little making the pins too high and have to be filed down some to correct it. If you cannot get it to unlock pushing the key in but can pull the shackle and it will open this usually means the tip cuts are not deep enough. This can be confusing if you never encounter this. Can be frustrating but you will eventually figure it out knowing this. There is links many places here showing how to take this lock apart so find them and learn how to take it apart before you try it to become confident what you are doing is right.

Message me if you get into trouble I will try to help.

Richard

[Kheops]

Alright, I'll try taking it apart. It sounds like it has much better chances of working. Although I definitely will take my time to unscrew the brass cap. I really don't want to damage it. I think I might prefer grinding down an allen key to fit as an improvised square screw driver, rather than use an easy-out.

What I meant by impressioning, is rolled up aluminum foil (not too tight), place it in the keyhole, beneath that, a 50 mil steel bar, and then using a ball pick, press the bar into foil into the pins. I figured, if I can just get the perfect amount of foil, and wiggle my ball pick slowly through the bottom of the keyway, seeing as how there are no wards the foil should impression the key pins, and yet leave a relatively flat surface on the bottom, with which I might be better able to extrapolate the correct key size. I think it could work, but it would be pretty tough... I already fiddled around with it a little. The biggest problem is the foil getting jammed between the pins and the keyway. When I try to remove it I always wind up messing up my impression.

I'll start grinding an allen key soon. Taking it apart seems to have less chance of messing up my lock, with bits of aluminum foil.

Thanks again for the advice.

[spuds]

Nice way to go Like the lock also

[MrWizard]

Kheops

Grinding down an allen wrench or any piece of metal is a good idea that way you have a tool to do all of them that are square. I have both types of easy outs the round ones that worked great on one that have just a round hole and the slightly tapered square ones that worked on the square hole. The cap isn't tight once it cracks loose you can use your hand to unscrew it. I have many types of these locks, one type of Yale that has completely round shackle and the hole is huge as big as the shackle the only thing I have that worked and didn't mess up the cap at all was a round easy out. I tried everything it wouldn't budge but put in that round easy out it came right out effortlessly

Richard

[MrWizard]

Kheops

Here is the round shackle Yale I did with the round easy out as you can see the hole is huge and I didn't want to mess up the outside by gripping it with something. I tried wrapping leather, rubber, various things around it then gripped that with many things but it would not move at all just slipped. So in desperation I put the lock in soft jaw vise carefully inserted the right size round easy out pushed down hard so it would not slip and it cracked loose so easy it was amazing.

This lock works and comes apart just like yours but happens to have broaching in the key way for a regular but obsolete paracentric type key. I had it for a long time before I dared to use that easy out.





Richard

[Kheops]

Well, I didn't have to grind an allen key. The flat screwdriver/bottle opener from my swiss army knife fit, and worked perfectly!

It took me two seconds and I took it apart. The lock was really dirty and gummed up with grease. Was 100 times easier than soft impressioning... which, by the way, I guess wasn't the best idea, because I found a few little bits of aluminum foil in the plug.

Now, on to making a key!

[Kheops]

I didn't have any blanks (hobby picker, not locksmith), and so I went on Ilco's website, downloaded their key blank directory PDFs. 1031 and 1239 fit with this type of lock.

I printed the appropriate pages, without margins, and then cut out the 1031 which I used as a template to cut out a blank from a sheet of stainless steel I had lying around (tried making a pick with it, but it was much to malleable)

Then it was just a matter of filing down for the bitting.

As you can see the 4th and 3rd pins are very high. I'd say pin number 4 is cut at zero. Obviously my blank was far from perfect, so it's possible that had I had a true blank, I might have had to file down number 4, but I doubt it.

It works really well, is a bit too soft, so I will have to eventually get a better alloy blank, or a true 1031.

Sorry for the pic quality, my wife is visiting family with our good camera, had to use my phone...






Thanks for the advice Mr. Wizard. Everything work out really well!

[GWiens2001]

Outstanding job, Kheops! It certainly looks much better than the first key I made for one of these PKPT locks.

Your time and patience, along with help from MrWizard and others, have paid off. Keep up the great work, and keep posting.

Gordon

[MrWizard]

Kheops

Your welcome glad to be of help. I'm sure it was very satisfying getting it back together and works ok. Some can be difficult to reassemble and have it work ok with the first key.

Getting the nickel silver Ilco 1031 blanks can be difficult and expensive plus have to wait a long time to get the factory to ship them out. Plus you have to buy a minimum of a bag of 10 as that is how they come. I get them from my lock supply distributor and aways take a while.

You can get the Flat Steel 1239 online from the link below for $2.21 each but again you have to get a bag of 10 or box of 50. So it will be 22.10 for the bag of 10 plus tax and shipping. I would think this company will have no problem selling them to you but have to make an account like all places you buy online from.

I have not bought anything from them so don't know what information they will ask for but go there make and account and find out then you will know what the shipping will be especially to Canada. You will probably find more locks like this so a bag of 10 is good to get. You might find other things they have you would like to add to order if they will ship internationally to you. Same blank will work on Corbin lock too they look and work the same as that yale but have much stronger retainer spring and harder to get back together because of it.

http://shop.doylesecurity.com/products/ilco/key-blanks-flat-steel/miscellaneous/il1239-key-blank-st.html

Let me know what happens if you try and if you get some on the way.

Good luck
Richard

[jeffmoss26]

I just bought some 1239 blanks for a VERY cheap price - PM me if interested.

[Kheops]

A lot of food for thought... I still have tons of stainless steel... And, there's always my favorite: dollar store steak knives. They are dirt cheap and made of surprisingly stiff stainless steel.

I don't know when I'll get my hands on another lock like this, so I don't know about buying a big quantity.

For things under 20$, I try not to order from the USA. Otherwise the shipping winds up costing more than whatever I'm buying.

[MrWizard]

I know what you mean the shipping from here to Canada and other places is way too high for something like a few blanks. Once I got one of these type push key locks and got it opened and made a key I got addicted to these type locks and started collecting many different ones. Most all take this same blank so buying a quantity of the blanks became a must have.

You need to be on the look out for Canadian made Yale like these where you are at yard sales thrift stores etc. Those are very collectible and sell on ebay for big bucks. One has on the back side CNR in large letters. And some just Canadian Yale & Town LTD on the shackle I really want both of these.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/RARE-antique-vintage-iron-YALE-CNR-pin-tumbler-push-key-padlock-lock-w-key-/361352261689?nav=SEARCH

If you search you will see many with hardware store names and initials on them all nice to add to your collection. Sargent, Corbin, Slaymaker, lots to collect and use these blanks.

Happy hunting

Richard

[Kheops]

I suppose it's not the same thing if my says MADE IN CANADA?