American Series H10 Questions

[BbGenesis]

Hello everyone, it's been a while. I'd kinda hit a plateau with picking and hadn't moved on but this week found me a new experiment that drug me back into the hobby pretty deep.

A guy I work with that knew I picked for fun had bought a trailer sometime last year and when he bought it he had found an American padlock series H10? (that's what it looks like, I can barely make it out on the body). It was sitting unlocked on the shelf at the front of the trailer. He gave it to me to see if I could pick it/play with it and so I decided what I was going to do was try my hand at impressioning a key to give him and give him the lock back. The lock was pretty crusty and felt sticky on the inside. I used silicon lube on the inside and used a jiggler to try and loosen up the pins. I've gotten all but one moving (still not very well though). Today is about the third evening I've worked with it trying to get it to loosen and my key blanks came in today. I can't get the key to go in all the way, it stops about half way, I'm thinking it's either the second or third wafer that is still completely solid. I tried some kroil just trying to see some results and still haven't had luck. Is there any solvents or anything that I can soak this in for a period of time that will clean it out without it gumming up?

Also has anyone got any tips on impressioning? I get the general idea and have read a lot about it but I haven't tried it yet. Thanks everyone.

[billdeserthills]

You cannot impression a key for this lock. You can remove the screw that holds in the cylinder and try to guess at the key,
or you can buy a new cylinder with a key and just swap it out. As you have noticed, one reason why it cannot be impressioned
is the key blank will not fully enter the keyway until it has the correct cuts on it.

[MacGnG1]

found this on google image search when i was trying to take one apart.




the old thread seems to be gone.

hope this helps.

[BbGenesis]

Oh wow, thanks guys. I wish I had known that about the key, no wonder it wouldn't go all the way in then. Thanks for the explanation and the diagram, that clears up quite a bit. Well I guess I may have to buy me another lock to practice impressioning on. Thanks again for the replies.

[Squelchtone]

hey macgng, you mean this old thread? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7435&start=15#p233577


Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

hey macgng, you mean this old thread? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7435&start=15#p233577


Squelchtone

What... this old thread?

Gordon

[MacGnG1]

Yeah! When I clicked on the link yesterday, I got an error but it works now... I dunno... I think it was cause I changed my preferences.


Anyway, if you take the core out of the padlock you can make a working key.

As for a starter lock for impressioning I would go with a master #3 or similar.

[BbGenesis]

Hello again, sorry to revive this thread but I'm still having some issues with this lock. I've been practicing on picking about three hours a night on all my practice locks and rekeying the mr.wizard lock till I can pick through it fairly quickly regularly. I'm back to where I can feel feedback and picture what all is going in the lock. But this lock still has me stuck. Is there a different way to approach wafer locks? I'm still missing something here. It seems like there is one pin that's still not setting, or rather it's oversetting. Does anyone have any tips on wafer locks in general? I think a big part of my issue is the lock is slightly sticky and it's been used and I'm not as used to picking used locks. I cleaned it with the brake cleaner that others on this site had recommended and then I cleaned it with kroil (100 times better than wd40) but it's still sticky. I've tried jigglers, I've tried raking with a bogota and all the other rakes that I have, I've tried SPP, etc. I'm not giving up, I just thought maybe there was something I might be missing.

Thanks for any thoughts on other tricks or tips with this lock. Sorry for the newb questions. I appreciate any help.

[Robotnik]

Wafer lock pick somewhat differently than pin-tumbler, but similar principles apply. At the most basic, you're looking for what's binding, be it pin or wafer.

Specific to tool and technique, I don't use a lot of pointed tools (like hook picks and half diamonds) on wafer locks, instead using ball or half ball picks, or a half diamond with the point blunted. In wafer locks, the individual discs are rather thin, and with too pointed a tool, it's easy to slip off.

The only H10 I have is an extremely old, very dirty one, so I can't give you much specific guidance. I've picked it, but it was less skill and more luck. That lock itself has been converted to something of a dummy lock; the shackle's been ground down underneath the locking ponts, allowing a firm pull to open the shackle.

Good luck!

[Raymond]

If you will notice on your lock or the exploded view previously provided, there are five pairs of wafers. There is only one spring to scramble all ten wafers. The center hole of all wafers are exactly the same size. What creates the different key bitting is that the center hole in a pair of wafers, held flush to the shear line, moves left or right by small amounts. The key must be cut, left side and right side, to the same overall width for all ten wafers. In other words, the key width stays the same and just shifts left or right.

A method of making a key is to take out the plug. Remove the spring. Cut one side completely off of a blank so that the blank will now enter the plug. Push the wafers down onto the blank, (remember - no spring) and file that side of the blank until the wafers all go down exactly to the shear line. When finished with one side, prepare another blank by cutting down the other side and filing it the same way as the first half-blank.

When you have finished filing both half-blanks, duplicate each half onto another complete blank so the third key has the cuts from both other keys on each appropriate side. This finished key should work perfectly. This key making method also works on old double sided Chicago and Illinois locks although their construction is different.

About picking: Since there is only one spring, acting to spread all pairs of wafers, the spring is very likely to not be working after beginning to pick and setting some of the wafers. I really prefer a curved pick or half diamond for picking these. You just have to remember to pick both sides. I consider them to pick very easily by just raking.

[BbGenesis]

Thanks for the insight, I just noticed Raymond had replied to the thread. I'm still working on the lock, I've been working on it a little bit every night while catching up on "The Blacklist" haha. The feedback it's giving me is kind of weird, I'm not sure if it's just because the lock is old and used or what. I can get the core to turn about a quarter turn but then it stops and at that point I can't feel any pins that want to bind. Still trying though, I'll let ya'll know when I get this guy open. I'm about ready to get this lock open and move on, I feel like it's making me pick up bad habits with heavier tension and the keyway is so large that master locks and schlage locks feel like I can't get a pick in them anymore. Thanks for all the advice everyone, I guess it's just one of those things that I'll have to keep working on and eventually (hopefully) get open.

[GWiens2001]

If the plug turns a quarter turn, it is picked. Try pulling on the shackle. If that does not work, spray some lube in the shackle holes, and whack the top of the shackle a few times with a rubber or plastic mallet or hammer. (Don't try to drive the shackle through the lock body, just try to smack it a little so the locking balls can move if they are stuck.

Gordon

[BbGenesis]

Well it's not fully a 1/4 turn but it is quite far which made me think either the other mechanisms are seized or that there is one wafer that may not be 100% in the right place. I started using dual pry bars though (1 on top, 1 on bottom) because using one felt like it was camming the core and not allowing it to fully rotate and that seems to have helped. I have about 30 padlocks/deadbolts that are my practice locks that I can get completely through in about 30 minutes but this one padlock... Oh well back to playing with it I guess. Thanks for the useful tips though, I'm going to try and loosen up the shackle to make sure that's not part of the issue. I've cleaned the lock out a couple of times with PB blaster and also brake cleaner and it still seems a bit sticky but a lot better than it was.

[cledry]

You can impression these but it is not easy. You cut half the blank away and impression one side only then you create the opposite side by eye, a deep cut on one side is a shallow cut opposite. We have a window gauge, when the key passes through the window it will work. I have spare keyed cores for these too.