Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Weird trap

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Weird trap

Postby Kheops » 31 Aug 2015 9:02

I don't know if there is another reason for the holes drilled about 30 degrees to the right of the pin stacks, but I do know they can trap springs!

Image

This plug is from a low-end key-in-knob lock, which was part of a deadbolt. I forget what manufacturer, but I think it may have been Weiser or a clone, the keyway is definitely Weiser (WR4 fits perfectly).

I had picked it a few times clockwise, and reset the pins with no trouble at all. I picked it once or twice counter-clockwise, and then one time, I picked it and it turned maybe 30 degrees, and jammed. It wouldn't turn, unless I exerted a lot of tension. I suspected I somehow got a spring stuck between the plug and the shell, but I couldn't figure out how. I figured one of the stacks must be really short, and the spring protruded into the plug (happened to me a few times in my first picking experiences with really cheap locks).

I tried resetting it, and re-picking it, but no matter what I did it refused to work properly. I put it aside for quite some time.

Now, having more experience, I finally decided to take it apart and examine it. I picked it again, and managed to turn it a few degrees, and then through brute force managed to take it apart with a plug follower... I obviously tore up a spring pretty bad, but all-in-all the rest of the lock seemed unhurt.

To my surprise, I saw that next to the pin chambers, was a second row of chambers, slightly smaller in diameter. I measured some of the pin stacks, and the fifth stack (key and top pins) doesn't need to be picked in order for the plug to turn. The two pins together perfectly fill the pin chamber, which allowed me to pick the lock by simply ignoring the fifth pin (at least, the time I screwed it up, it appears I ignored to fifth pin). It's possible that the fit was tight enough that when I picked clockwise, the spring did not get trapped, since I hadn't turned the plug 360 degrees. When I picked the other direction, my spring dropped into this second small chamber, and jammed the lock. (You can see where the spring marked the plug a little when I forced it).

You can see that these chambers are not very deep, which would make the spring protrude into the shell. However they are not large enough for the top pins to fit into them.

Luckily I follow the rules and don't pick locks that are in use. Had this lock been on my, or a friends door, I would have created a serious problem, and at the time I would not have known how to resolve it.

Anyone know another reason for these smaller chambers? (aside from trapping springs)

I was particularly surprised because it was such a cheap lock. I thought it seemed unlikely that it would incorporate pin, or spring, trapping chambers (I haven't yet gotten the chance to put my hands on a real lock with trap chambers...aside MAYBE this one).

Aside from a trap, I guessed they could also be used in some, time-saving, manufacturing process, in order to load the springs into the proper chambers. One could, I suppose, load the springs into these chambers, and the top pins into the key chambers of the plug. Push the springs down, as you insert the plug into the shell, one-by-one (keeping the shell upside down). Turn the "spring chambers" to the bible, and let gravity drop them into the chambers. Then turn 30 degrees more and let gravity drop the top pins into the bible. Insert a blank, and using a plug follower, remove the plug, while leaving the shell ready to accept any pinned plug. Seems complicated, but, like I said, it was a cheap lock, and therefore if someone in the manufacturing plant calculated that they can save time doing the assembly this way, it is plausible... I suppose.
Kheops
 
Posts: 78
Joined: 25 Feb 2014 7:48
Location: Montreal

Re: Weird trap

Postby Squelchtone » 31 Aug 2015 9:07

That's for construction keying. When a builder builds a house, he gets locks that are construction keyed, which include little ball bearings in one or more pin stacks. His contractor key operates the lock just fine, and his workers can all make copies of the keys but when the house is built, they hand the other keys that came with the lock to the home owner, the home owner inserts their key for the first time and turns it and the key cuts are set to the actual pins in the lock and when the plug is turned, it drops the construction balls off into those side holes where they spend the rest of their lives. By dumping those construction keying balls out, the bitting changes and it makes the builders key no longer work as the bitting of the lock has suddenly changed in one or more pin stacks.

The home owner can sleep soundly knowing some random construction worker doesn't have a working copy of his house key.

There's a photo of a construction ball here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=55450&start=15#p402443

and a visual explanation here: http://www.sopl.us/news-blog/previous/9

Squelchtone
Image
User avatar
Squelchtone
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11307
Joined: 11 May 2006 0:41
Location: right behind you.

Re: Weird trap

Postby Kheops » 31 Aug 2015 9:16

Thanks Squelchtone, your response makes perfect sense.

It would explain why the bitting is so ridiculously shallow, to leave room for the bearings.

I found it kind of irresponsible for a manufacturer to have such shallow bitting. Even stack number 2 could possibly be ignored. Which means someone with the wrong key, but with 1,3, and 4, at the right bitting, could quite easily jam up this lock.

I'm not very impressed by the lock, but at least now, I understand why.

Thanks again!
Kheops
 
Posts: 78
Joined: 25 Feb 2014 7:48
Location: Montreal

Re: Weird trap

Postby paces » 31 Aug 2015 10:18

Never saw one like this. Cool
paces
 
Posts: 31
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 18:37
Location: Kentucky

Re: Weird trap

Postby Corvid » 31 Aug 2015 11:23

I've seen locks like that used for demonstration purposes on vids, and always wondered why they were there, and how they didn't screw up the mechanism.

Thanks to this thread, I know both the purpose and the rough dimensions!

Thank you Squelchtone and Kheops :)
Corvid
 
Posts: 16
Joined: 20 Mar 2014 11:01
Location: Canada

Re: Weird trap

Postby jimu57 » 31 Aug 2015 20:57

I have taken apart several set up for construction keys. But Squelchtone explained the purpose better than I have heard anywhere.

jimu57
jimu57

"You haven't failed until you stop trying"
jimu57
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 526
Joined: 24 Apr 2015 5:43
Location: Virginia, USA


Return to Pick-Fu [Intermediate Skill Level]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests