Threaded Chambers Issues

[Korver15]

Really struggling getting a feel for my Assa V10 threaded chambers with the new assa pins. I can progressively pin up to 4 and then I can never seem to get the 5th pin. I just cant get a handle on what kind of feedback/sounds I am exactly looking for. Anyone have an insight?

[Squelchtone]

threaded chambers?

do you mean counter-milled plugs done at the factory so the top spool pins get stuck? or did you thread your hollow chambers yourself using a tap and die for some home brew project?

[GWiens2001]

Do you mean the countermilled pin channels in the plug?

Gordon

[Korver15]

Do you mean the countermilled pin channels in the plug?

Gordon

threaded chambers?

do you mean counter-milled plugs done at the factory so the top spool pins get stuck? or did you thread your hollow chambers yourself using a tap and die for some home brew project?

Upon closer examination of the plug it seems that, while it looks like threads, it is in fact multiple counter milled rings. So yes, this is what I am struggling with.

[GWiens2001]

You will have to turn the plug backwards slightly to get them to set. It is very difficult to learn, but it can be done.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

For locks that don't provide much feedback, I like tension wrenches that fit very tightly in the keyway.

[Korver15]

You will have to turn the plug backwards slightly to get them to set. It is very difficult to learn, but it can be done.

Gordon

But how do you know which is the binding pin? It seems that I just push up on some pins, I believe I set a couple, and then cant find which to push up on. I hypothesized that if I would rotate the plug to a location before the edges of pins enter the countermilled chamber, while still allowing pins to be set, I would be able to get feedback, but this doesn't seem to be the case. With the new assa pins that distance between those two points is even smaller, so it seems they fall down if I release pressure.

For locks that don't provide much feedback, I like tension wrenches that fit very tightly in the keyway.

Do you make your own tension wrenches? I have a dozen or so bought wrenches, but while some fit snug there seems to always be a little play unless I force one into the keyway.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just seeing if it relates and if anyone can discern how I should improve.

[kwoswalt99-]

Yeah, I make everything myself. Even though I've never played with one of these, intead I would try finding the binder, and continue past to the shearline before I set the others. I don't know if a pin will set at the shear line without setting the other pins first though.

[Korver15]

Yeah, I make everything myself. Even though I've never played with one of these, intead I would try finding the binder, and continue past to the shearline before I set the others. I don't know if a pin will set at the shear line without setting the other pins first though.

What do you use to make them? What thicknesses? Then to actually get it into the keyway do you file it down?

[kwoswalt99-]

Do you mean what materials, or what tools? I don't measure the thicknesses, I just make them as I need them, and simply fit them to the lock. My materials vary widely, sometimes I just pick up stuff off the street and make picks and wrenches out of them.

[Squelchtone]

You will have to turn the plug backwards slightly to get them to set. It is very difficult to learn, but it can be done.

Gordon

But how do you know which is the binding pin? It seems that I just push up on some pins, I believe I set a couple, and then cant find which to push up on. I hypothesized that if I would rotate the plug to a location before the edges of pins enter the countermilled chamber, while still allowing pins to be set, I would be able to get feedback, but this doesn't seem to be the case. With the new assa pins that distance between those two points is even smaller, so it seems they fall down if I release pressure.

For locks that don't provide much feedback, I like tension wrenches that fit very tightly in the keyway.

Do you make your own tension wrenches? I have a dozen or so bought wrenches, but while some fit snug there seems to always be a little play unless I force one into the keyway.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just seeing if it relates and if anyone can discern how I should improve.

simply put, more practice. It feels like you might be trying to rush your way into picking an ASSA, those things are no joke, so take your time and if it takes you the next year to open one fully pinned, then thats what it takes, it's not like, Master lock, then Schlage, then ASSA Twin, for some folks it takes a few years of beating all the other locks before you move up to that level.

unpin the whole lock and remove the side bar pins and springs and side bar. pin up 2 pin stacks, then shift which 2 pin stacks are pinned up until you can easily figure out by feel and feedback which one is setting and which one is getting stuck in the top pins. Examine your top pins and if they are only spooled on one end, flip them over so they are no longer spooled and pick the lock to shear with those in the lock and again, only 2 pin stacks at a time and shift which chambers have those 2.. example.. pin up 1 and 2, 1 and 6 , 2 and 3, 2 and 5, 5 an 6, etc. then and only then add another pin stack. And if you want to know what a set pin is like and what a pin caught on the counter milling feels/looks like and how much rotation the plug gives, then just pin up 1 chamber and move it around from from to back of the lock to see if its the same feel/rotation be it in pin stack 1 or in 3 or deep in 6. If the plug turns and keeps turning, then obviously you set that one pin correctly and the lock is picked. If you lift the pin and the plug does not turn, then it's underset, stuck on a spool, or overset. (I know this is obvious stuff, but might as well get it down on paper)

I think too many people pin up progressively in order of pin stack 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 until the whole lock is pinned up.

Keep practicing, there are no easy answers or tips we can provide to tell which one is the binding pin. Only you can know that, in person, in front of the lock, as you're picking it.

Squelchtone

[FarmerFreak]

But how do you know which is the binding pin?

Push the key pin up until it makes contact with the driver pin. Then gently push it up another 5 thousands of an inch. Was it springy? If so, it isn't the binding pin. If it didn't budge at all, it is the binding pin. If you can't detect the springiness on a correctly set pin, you need more practice feeling for the springiness.

To get practice, take a lock that you can already single pin pick. Set some of the pins, not all of the pins. Then feel the pins. Feel the set pins and the binding pins, and the non-binding non-set pins.

No excuses. Finding a binding pin when there is a spring on the other end of it is always the same. Kwikset to Assa, it makes no difference.

NOTE: Finding the binding pin and setting all the pins are two completely different problems. For each Assa cylinder, If you haven't spent 30+ minutes trying to pick it. Then you haven't even started.

[Korver15]

simply put, more practice. It feels like you might be trying to rush your way into picking an ASSA, those things are no joke, so take your time and if it takes you the next year to open one fully pinned, then thats what it takes, it's not like, Master lock, then Schlage, then ASSA Twin, for some folks it takes a few years of beating all the other locks before you move up to that level.
Squelchtone

Me rushing is probably the case, but I will say that I worked my way passed American locks. I repinned and repinned Americans making it harder. When I got bored with those I read the many posts about what to get after that and most said pick a high security lock. I read Open in 30 Seconds acquired some Medecos, non sidebar Assas, the V10, Mul T Lock classics, evvas, trioving, basicly anything that I knew was harder than american . And I have been able to pick many of them consistently.

No excuses. Finding a binding pin when there is a spring on the other end of it is always the same. Kwikset to Assa, it makes no difference.

Does that still apply when the pin falls into the countermilled chamber then it seizes up the cylinder? Or is there always some form of feedback that I have to develop a refined feel for?

Maybe I have been accidentally using the wrong terminology

I greatly appreciate the posts keep the critiques coming!

[Korver15]

But yes I do understand that practice is the key. But knowing what to feel for makes the practice more efficient

[Squelchtone]

But yes I do understand that practice is the key. But knowing what to feel for makes the practice more efficient

let me restate it in another way.. we cannot tell you any more over the internet what to feel for when an Assa twin spool pin catches the countermilling than for an NFL quarterback to tell someone on an internet forum what the grip on the football should feel like to throw a perfect pass. With practice you wont have to ask what to feel for, you'll just pick the lock and go, oh, that's what the feels like when it's set properly, or oh that's what it's like when it catches on a spool.

make sense?

Squelchtone