Purchasing a home safe

[billdeserthills]

How do holes decrease the fire resistance? When mounted on a slab, I don't see how that much heat could get through there.
If you're really really paranoid, you might as well get one of these. overkill

I don't understand exactly, but I was told by Amsec the heat of the fire is transmitted inside the safe via the steel in the bolt
that is threaded through that hole. I didn't want to be sued so I just don't do it (drill extra holes in a firesafe, that is)

I was also told (by Amsec) it would be ok to drill a small hole for the power cord on my 'goldenrod' on my BF series safes

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

The Gardall BF series is ok, we use to sell alot of them, made by Gardall in NY. Decent Hardplate. The Gardall FB is the same equal to the hollon, glass plate and all. The FB was also a Korean Import. Relabeled by Gardall, Cobalt, Adesco, and others. The actual manufacturer is SUN of Korea. We have a Old FB in the shop that was unsuccessfully burglarized over several days before state police found it.

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

I'm curious to get more info on the issue of securing the safe to the floor. Some safes have a single mounting hole, some have two (with options for up to four). Given that this is mounting to a cement slab, is a single lag bolt sufficient? Is there more than one type of lag bolt to consider, and should some sort of adhesive be added during the install? I'm not in a flood zone, and the only likely source of water would be a fire that triggered the sprinkler system (there are two in the garage, the likely location of the install). I've not tested or checked the slope of that floor, perhaps I should, although I understand most of these safes have expanding seals in case of fire. It seems there would be trade-off between raising the safe off the floor during mounting (which would leave room for a pry bar) which might offer some protection against flooding, and a more secure mount. with no gaps.

Still unclear on the trade-off between a traditional dial and electronic version.

Thanks to all who have contributed so far, been educational.

There are also some very nice electro-mechanical redundant locks out there. NL, Securam, and Lockmasters all have versions. EMP protection as well as good old fashion backup to save ones arse when something happens to electronic components

[billdeserthills]

While on the subject of digital safes,
I had the misfortune of installing a securam pos safe lock for a 90+ year old. First lock I installed would not recognize
any of his fingerprints, even when the oldster did have the ability to swipe said fingerprint, before the 'learn' function
on the lock timed out. He sent that lock back and got another pos securam lock, pushbutton only on this one. What an
interesting and time consuming surprise I was welcomed with when I realized the new lock needed a couple of new holes
drilled and tapped for installation, because the two holes his safe dial ring had wouldn't work for the new lock. Did I
remember to let everyone know that I think securam is a pos? I'll be glad to explain another reason I think securam sux.
When I shop for a safe lock I start from S&G and work my way down. I find it a bit frightening to find the cheapest, and
therefore crummiest locks in my catalog seem to be made by securam. One thing I have found to be true with safe locks,
ones that can do more than 'one' trick, don't seem to do any of their 'tricks' very well, which certainly was the case for the
securam fingerprint reader/ digital pushbutton lock...

[cledry]

I get more calls for lockouts on S&G than anything else. Followed by LaGard Basics. AMSECs seem to be the most reliable for me.

[femurat]

I get more calls for lockouts on S&G than anything else. Followed by LaGard Basics. AMSECs seem to be the most reliable for me.

Couldn't this be related to the bigger diffusion of those brands?
What is the lockout cause?

Cheers

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

I get more calls for lockouts on S&G than anything else. Followed by LaGard Basics. AMSECs seem to be the most reliable for me.

I get more lockouts due to Lagard keypads taking a dirt nap than anything, S&G always turns out to be a jam in the bolt/ stripped wormscrew.

Amsec ESL i almost never have problems with. Securam is close 2nd.

[cledry]

I get more calls for lockouts on S&G than anything else. Followed by LaGard Basics. AMSECs seem to be the most reliable for me.

Couldn't this be related to the bigger diffusion of those brands?
What is the lockout cause?

Cheers

That is quite possible. Stripped gear to motor interface on S&G, keypad on LaGard. Often can walk and S&G back and get it open. LaGard I would like to buy the tool to reset them when locked but have other tools I have to buy first. Just spent almost $2500 on jigs and such last month alone.

[MatrixBlackRock]

I'm curious to get more info on the issue of securing the safe to the floor. Some safes have a single mounting hole, some have two (with options for up to four). Given that this is mounting to a cement slab, is a single lag bolt sufficient?

I would avoid using lags or any other drop in expansion plug type anchor as they tend to have a low pullout rating, if you want to nail a safe or anything else down hard to concrete use ITW Red-Head tru-bolt anchors.

Since we are talking a residential slab it is more than likely a 4" thick slab, which limits the maximum tru-bolt you can use to 3/8 X 1 3/4, none the less with standard residential 2.5KPSI concrete, that anchor has a pullout rating 2,198 pounds, use 4 anchors and that safe will be down tight and ain't going to be pried up easily.

http://www.itwredhead.com/pdfs/submitta ... ndix_B.pdf

They do hold tight, I once had to repair an electrical/PLC panel that was mounted to a Unistrut frame supported by two 3" schedule 40 galvanized uprights, which where welded to 1/4 inch base plates that we fastened to the floor with 1/2 " Red-Heads, a couple of years later some yahoo backed a forklift into the framework and in the process bent one of the 3" uprights about 30 degrees and sheared the other off the baseplate at the weld line and the base plates weren't even loosened from the floor.

Wayne

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

I'm curious to get more info on the issue of securing the safe to the floor. Some safes have a single mounting hole, some have two (with options for up to four). Given that this is mounting to a cement slab, is a single lag bolt sufficient?

I would avoid using lags or any other drop in expansion plug type anchor as they tend to have a low pullout rating, if you want to nail a safe or anything else down hard to concrete use ITW Red-Head tru-bolt anchors.

Since we are talking a residential slab it is more than likely a 4" thick slab, which limits the maximum tru-bolt you can use to 3/8 X 1 3/4, none the less with standard residential 2.5KPSI concrete, that anchor has a pullout rating 2,198 pounds, use 4 anchors and that safe will be down tight and ain't going to be pried up easily.

http://www.itwredhead.com/pdfs/submitta ... ndix_B.pdf

They do hold tight, I once had to repair an electrical/PLC panel that was mounted to a Unistrut frame supported by two 3" schedule 40 galvanized uprights, which where welded to 1/4 inch base plates that we fastened to the floor with 1/2 " Red-Heads, a couple of years later some yahoo backed a forklift into the framework and in the process bent one of the 3" uprights about 30 degrees and sheared the other off the baseplate at the weld line and the base plates weren't even loosened from the floor.

Wayne

Red Heads are all i use for concrete and they are the best in my book

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

I get more calls for lockouts on S&G than anything else. Followed by LaGard Basics. AMSECs seem to be the most reliable for me.

Couldn't this be related to the bigger diffusion of those brands?
What is the lockout cause?

Cheers

That is quite possible. Stripped gear to motor interface on S&G, keypad on LaGard. Often can walk and S&G back and get it open. LaGard I would like to buy the tool to reset them when locked but have other tools I have to buy first. Just spent almost $2500 on jigs and such last month alone.

I almost prefer to spike the locks vs the two grand that tool costs......although not having to replace a lock is a plus using the reset tool.

[MBI]

I don't understand exactly, but I was told by Amsec the heat of the fire is transmitted inside the safe via the steel in the bolt that is threaded through that hole.

I can see how it'd do that on an upper story room where it's bolted down to a wood floor or joist.

Red Heads are all i use for concrete and they are the best in my book

I have to agree as well. Those things are amazing.

[C locked]

Are you on a flood plain? If there is a chance you might get flooded, put the docs and stuff in watertight containers (with silica gel packets) inside the safe. Bolt the safe to the floor with lag screws and shields. You can get a used safe, but if it's been drilled open and repaired, it's no longer UL certified, if that's important to your insurance. I would hide the safe in some kind of enclosure-you can buy them or make one.

What kind of enclosure are you referring ?
Are you refering to those cupboards that
are designed to look like the under desk drawer units?

[jbrint]

Hilti wedge bolts are a good choice as well. I use these and have used them to secure several thousand lbs. racks to the floor as well with out issue. Just measure the bit against the bolt and drill straight as an arrow and they don't come out easy. I am no expert on the safe and will defer that to the experts.

[kwoswalt99-]

Another thing you could do is weight the safe down if you have extra room. My friend cut out 10 1/2" steel plates to fit in the bottom of his safe.