Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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I have a Safe Cabinet Co. safe with serial number 117xxx (as best I can remember). The lock seems to match pictures I have found of a Yale OC-5.
The door is open, and I know the combination. I failed on several tries to open it a couple of days ago, but I've figured out what I did wrong in dialing the combination. I had very little time to work on it then and won't be back to where it is until October, so I'm trying to learn what I can in the meantime.
In the process I took the back off the lock and noticed that it seemed a bit dirty inside with maybe some dried up grease as well. I thought at the time that this must be the reason that the dial sometimes drags, but since then I've done some reading and wonder if the problem is maybe that there is some misalignment of the dial and/or dial ring.
I've watched some videos that explain how the S&G locks work, but this lock is different enough that some things about it are still a mystery. I have this horror of hearing "sproingggg" and watching small pieces fly in several directions (as happened with my Mickey Mouse watch when I was about 11 years old), but I think I ought to be able to clean it up a bit without damaging it.
Changing the combination is obviously a completely different thing from the S&G's: the drive cam is in front of the wheels, the wheels are attached to the back, and it looks like the wheel stack must be completely disassembled in order to do it. Looking at the top wheel, I can see that the indicator is pointing to the correct third number in the combination and that the wheel is in at least three pieces that must be taken apart and put back together in a different orientation in order to change the combination. Separating the wheels from the back looks scary.
It looks like I'd have to pull out the drive cam spline to get the lock out of the door. The parts in the front don't match up with what I understand from the S&G videos, and I can't see the mechanism in the door itself, so that's pretty intimidating right now. I think I'd buy an OC-5 to practice on except that they don't seem to come up for sale very often.
Any help you guys can throw my way would be much appreciated.
the 'safe cabinet' offered 4 locks with their safes. what are the dial center to handle center measurements ? is it a 50 dial or 100 numbered dial? photos ??
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
just to clarify: a 50# dial with screw removable dial means you have an S&G C85. A 100# Eagle dial means you have an Eagle 2058. Yale dial to handle with measurement of 3.75" means a Yale 0402. Yale dial to handle with measurement of 4.5" means a Yale OC5 (larger version of the 0402). The S&G C85 is hole change, the 2085 is hole change and the OC5 and 0402 are both mesh change.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thanks for the info. The dial knob says Yale, so that narrows it to two possibilities, I think. I should have the measurement and some photos in a couple of days. I'll post them then.
The center-to-center distance between the handle and the dial is 4.5 inches, so it's a Yale OC-5. I have some questions about it:
what is the gear for? would I get a nasty surprise if I were to take out the screw that holds in the lever (and probably the gear)? what would be the best way to pull the spline key?
The tag on the front looks like this:
THE SAFE-CABINET STANDARD L.E. TYPE THE SAFE CABINET CO. MARIETTA OHIO USA
The tag on the back has a serial number of 117196.
I'd be interested in knowing when it was manufactured.
Ultimately, I'd like to get the lock out of the safe and clean off the old grease and whatever else is gunking it up.
the gear aids in moving the locking bolt to its furthest opening position. there is another gear beneath the wheels. i believe that one is fixed. pull the spline key straight out with pliers. no surprise if lever screw is removed.take photos of each process to make remembering for reassembling easier. clean with your favorite degreaser but wipe off thoroughly. no need to lubricate.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
Does anybody have any suggestions as to what to do about the alligatored paint and the rust on the dial ring? Given this thing's age I imagine that it's lead paint.
i got a 'safe cabinet' at a farm auction 20 years ago. it was light duty and weighed about 200 lbs.same size as yours. it was in the hay mow area next the the sliding barn doors with easy access.it had scrap wood and straw inside. i was the only bidder at got it for $3. backed my truck up to it and leaned it on the tailgate and slid it in. i vacuumed it out and washed the outside with soap and water ,let it dry thoroughly and then roller painted it with another green colored paint. i took the dial ring off and let it soak in cider vinegar overnight and then gently rubbed it with fine steel wool.the rust came off but if it has pits they will remain. it shined up real good. a month later i sold it for $300.not all 'safe cabinets' are light.i just lucked out with one that was. i also stripped and cleaned the lock.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
I took the lock out of the safe a couple of weeks ago, and I've gotten it cleaned up. One of the nice things that went along with this is that I'm now comfortable messing around inside the lock and taking it apart and putting it back together. It turns out that the lock has been drilled, and it wasn't an expert job. It looks like five or six holes before he finally got it right. Fortunately it seems to be OK in spite of that.
Now I'm interested in learning how changing the combination works. I've added a picture of a wheel that's not from this lock but is the same. I thought that the wheels would disassemble easily once I had them out of the case. It didn't turn out that way, so I'm hoping some of you guys can tell me how it works.
You see that brass ring around the main post on top of all of the wheels? You need to GENTLY spread it apart a bit and take if off. While prying it apart work one side up and over the lip then pry up around the rest of the ring and it should come off completely about half way around. This way you will not have to completely spread it out.
This will allow you to take off the wheels. There will be spacers/washers between each of them. It is important to keep everything in the same order.
If you look carefully you will see there is a line on the inner ring of your picture that is pointing towards 0. This is what determines your combination. Each wheel will have one. The one shown would be the last number of the combination and the wheel closest to the back cover would be the first number of the combination.
To change the numbers you should have to push the inner ring up with the numbers facing you. Then rotate it around until you get to the number you want and put it back into place firmly. Do that with all 3 and then reassemble and test your combination.
Sorry, I wasn't clear about this. My lock is all apart. The picture is one I got from the web, but the wheels are the same. I thought it would be quicker than getting everything together to take a picture of my wheels. Seemed like a good idea at the time, as they say. I've got a good pair of retaining-ring pliers, so that part was easy.
The specific problem I have is that I tried pushing the centers out of my wheels with my fingers, and was not able to get anything to move. Since I didn't know which way was the right way to push, I was hesitant to apply any more force than that. Also, I thought that there might be something else I needed to do first to unlock them so that they could come apart.
So, now I know that if it's lying on the bench with the numbers facing up, the center of the wheel should move in the upward direction. And there is nothing holding the pieces together except friction. Is this right?
And the wheel is composed of just the two pieces of metal: the hub and the rim (my names for them). Well, except for the fly, which seems to be permanently attached to the hub, unlike the ones on S&G locks.
Now the big question is whether to try tapping on it with something in order to get it to move. Scary.
Thanks for all the help so far. Any advice on separating the wheels would be much appreciated.
Once I get it all fixed up and back together, I'll put up some pictures of the actual lock.
jimmycofc wrote: Thanks for all the help so far. Any advice on separating the wheels would be much appreciated.
Once I get it all fixed up and back together, I'll put up some pictures of the actual lock.
If you are 99% sure that your wheels are like the stock photo you found, then I have a feeling you're pushing down on the central ring where the fly is located while you are looking at the numbers and hash marks of the outer ring.
Try this instead: Flip the wheel over so you are looking at the little nub (called a pin) protruding from the central ring, where there are no numbers or lines on the outer ring, and now push down on the central ring to push it out of the center. Push it with both thumbs, one at 10 o'clock and one at 2 o'clock to provide proper leverage.
You will notice that the central wheel edge profile has a certain geometry (90 degree edge on top, bevel on the bottom) that only allows it to pop in and out of the outer combination wheel in one direction
Here, I made a video, don't mind that it is filmed vertically and I'm only using 1 hand to pop the wheels apart, hope it helps:
Squelchtone wrote:If you are 99% sure that your wheels are like the stock photo you found, then I have a feeling you're pushing down on the central ring where the fly is located while you are looking at the numbers and hash marks of the outer ring.
Actually, I was pushing the right way. The problem was that I didn't have the nerve to push hard enough because i wan't sure that I was pushing the right way. The video you included was a great help. Thanks for that. I followed your directions, pushed harder, and they popped right out.
I knew that I'd been away for a while. Then I logged on and discovered that it's been two and a half years since I was here. I need to push up the priority on this old safe and try to get it back together this summer. On the other hand, the paint I sprayed on has had plenty of time to dry.
