FAQ: The Fine Art of Impressioning (in a nutshell)

[GWiens2001]

Torpedo pins sounds interesting. But, where would I find them for a Schlage lock?
Maybe springs of variable stiffness would help?

Use a drill, put a normal key pin in where you put the drill bit, then use a file while spinning the drill to make your own torpedo pins, spool pins, serrated pins, drunken spool pins, or any other type of pins you please.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

You could always swap a top pin for a bottom pin, I bet that flat surface will make impressioning much harder

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

Torpedo pins sounds interesting. But, where would I find them for a Schlage lock?
Maybe springs of variable stiffness would help?

Use a drill, put a normal key pin in where you put the drill bit, then use a file while spinning the drill to make your own torpedo pins, spool pins, serrated pins, drunken spool pins, or any other type of pins you please.

Gordon

The tiny 3 jaw chick option on a Dremel works well also... doesnt dent the pins as much as a bigger drill chuck will.

[m12]

I like the drill idea.
It sounds like torpedo pins will slow down the process of impressioning, but not prevent it. So, I wonder if there is a way to prevent impressioning, or if it is the weakness of the pin tumbler lock. Maybe the idea of using the top pins as key pins can prevent it.
I am thinking about hardening the top pins portion of a Schlage Primus lock - wondering how high you could raise the picking difficulty level by doing so.

[GWiens2001]

I like the drill idea.
It sounds like torpedo pins will slow down the process of impressioning, but not prevent it. So, I wonder if there is a way to prevent impressioning, or if it is the weakness of the pin tumbler lock. Maybe the idea of using the top pins as key pins can prevent it.
I am thinking about hardening the top pins portion of a Schlage Primus lock - wondering how high you could raise the picking difficulty level by doing so.

Hardening? Do you mean hardening the metal or making them into better security pins?

Gordon

[m12]

More specifically, I meant making the top pin portion of the lock harder to pick by using security pins, stiffer springs, and other methods.

[GWiens2001]

Then yes, you can easily add security pins and springs of different tensions to the lock.

You can also add Schlage T pins with the matching extra-heavy springs to one or more pin stacks.

If you want to make the lock extra nasty, you can look for/make security pins like the lock which the Primus is a copy of - the ASSA Twin Combi. Adding counter-milling to the plug pin channels, as well as in the lock body's pin channels, and you are set!

Of course, you can do further mods like those done by FarmerFreak. (That guy is amazing!) but it all comes down to how likely is someone to be able to pick a Primus, let alone that same person deciding to pick the lock as opposed to finding an easier entry method.

Gordon

[m12]

Gordon,
Thanks to you and everyone for the responses. I like the idea of modifying the pins + plug bores to imitate the ASSA 700. I know this is a difficult question, but using these various techniques, I wonder if the Primus could be made nearly unpickable, even to someone who knows how to pick it; or, at least maybe increase picking time to hours.
Matt

[m12]

I was looking for a source for stiffer springs and called mrspring.com. They have springs of variable stiffness in stock that are of sizes that would fit in pin tumbler locks. At any rate, it should be an interesting project.

[GWiens2001]

Gordon,
Thanks to you and everyone for the responses. I like the idea of modifying the pins + plug bores to imitate the ASSA 700. I know this is a difficult question, but using these various techniques, I wonder if the Primus could be made nearly unpickable, even to someone who knows how to pick it; or, at least maybe increase picking time to hours.
Matt

If you modify the pins and pin channels to be exactly like those in an ASSA, then you will have the equivalent of the ASSA Twin V-10, if I recall the model designation correctly.

Even the Primus is beyond the picking skills of most pickers. The ASSA monsters are beyond 98% of pickers. They are far more difficult to pick than a Medeco. And most pickers will never put in the time to learn to pick a Medeco. They can be picked.

There are very few locks that nobody can pick. The EVVA MCS is one, though there is someone who is hot on the trail of making a tool that can do the trick. The Abloy Protec is a beast that was considered unpickable, though there are rumors of a tool that can do the job.

Don't worry about criminals picking your high security locks. If they know enough to have that kind of skill, you are not going to keep them out. Only the kind of integrity and honesty that we promote here will keep those people out.

Please, nobody bring up destructive entry, bypass, or anything beyond that certain tools may or may not exist. That kind of info needs to stay in the Advanced forums. Can see the possibility for that kind of data being mentioned in this thread, and want to head it off before it becomes a problem.

Gordon

[m12]

I've heard of the Protec tool, who knows how reliable it is, and it appears to take a lot of time to decode the lock. Maybe Abloy will address the vulnerability. I wouldn't buy the EVVA MCS for the reason you stated; with all of the technology available, I suspect there is a decoder or something on the black market that can replicate a working key.

[m12]

Gordon,
I think I understand your point, which is that they are not going to pick a high security lock; they are going to drill it, or break a window, or cut something.

[DrDave-USA]

I've used SHRPIE Markers instead of blacking the blank with a lighter, with GREAT Success !!! I don't understand WHY more folks don't use the markers....

Just sayin'.......

[Shifty1]

I think grooved pin chambers and a barrel pin thrown in for good measure would make for one hard to impression lock. However, I ran into a plastic shell some time ago and wore my ass for a hat. Oh yeah, custom pinned for added insult to injury. I've had a lot of success impressioning most N. American residential cylinders but that plastic shell humbled me and has made me a little wiser in my approach. BTW I like the suggestion about using driver pins in place of key pins. I have done this often and impressioning flat pins does make for better training session. Cheers!

[GWiens2001]

Security driver pins have no real effect on impressioning, since they never drop below the shear line unless you file too far.

However, torpedo shaped key pins can make impressioning more difficult.

Gordon