Advice on start up key cutting business

[CYA]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to add key cutting service to my business. Currently I'm looking into two used machine:

1. Curtis 3100 machines comes with stand and about 800 blanks. The seller is asking 795 obo. Condition looks to be really good condition.

2. ilco 045hd just the machine. It looks to be in almost brand new condition. Seller is willing to sell it for 400.

Any tips on what to look for when buying a used machine? Is it better to buy new or used in my situation. Any advice would be great help. Thanks in advance.

[MBI]

You can sometimes save a lot of money buying a used machine, so keep an eye out for bargains.

See if the power cord is still attached securely and isn't frayed or cracked. Look at the condition of the belt and see if it's cracked or coming apart. Look for rust anywhere, particularly on the horizontal bars the key clamp slides back and forth on. Those are usually carbon steel with no paint or finish on it so they need to remain lubed, both for smooth functioning but also corrosion resistance. If you can, plug it in and see if the motor works properly without smoke, burning smell, sparks or odd noises. With the motor off and the machine unplugged, turn the wheel by hand and see if it turns reasonably smoothly or if the motor is giving lots of resistance to turning by hand. While turning it by hand, turn it very slowly for at least one full revolution and check for chipped teeth on the cutting wheel. Obviously a good test would be to cut a key with it so if you're looking at it in person, take a lock with key and an appropriate blank with you, duplicate the key and see if it works.

Many problems with machines are fixable, some cheaply, so if the machine is damaged don't rule it out entirely, just use it as an opportunity to get a much better deal on it.

I'm certainly no expert, but those are a few things you could check, just off the top of my head.

Also, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see a first post that isn't some variation of "what picks should I buy?" or "please help me open this lock [insert pic of vending machine coin box lock] really fast with no special tools or training!" or "I'm pushing up all the pins and the lock won't open, what am I doing wrong?" that we see on an almost daily basis and can be quickly answered if they took a few minutes to read the FAQ or stickies on the forum.

[billdeserthills]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to add key cutting service to my business. Currently I'm looking into two used machine:

1. Curtis 3100 machines comes with stand and about 800 blanks. The seller is asking 795 obo. Condition looks to be really good condition.

2. ilco 045hd just the machine. It looks to be in almost brand new condition. Seller is willing to sell it for 400.

Any tips on what to look for when buying a used machine? Is it better to buy new or used in my situation. Any advice would be great help. Thanks in advance.

I think those prices are high. If you can test out the Ilco machine, you will save like $150 over the cost of a new one.
Without knowing how out of adjustment the machine is that could be a loss. Also don't get too excited about 800 keys
the former owner was unable to sell, most of the keys I sell cost me about 14 cents apiece.

I hear some folks don't like the 9120 speedex, but I have been using one for 15 years. Apart from an occasional rebuild all it asks for is oil
I also have a 9160 speedex, which is a larger version of the 9120, if you have the room. I have had that one for over 20 years. You might
be better off buying a new speedex for about $500+ and still have money to put towards key blanks. The Speedex 9120 comes optionally
with a 12vt DC motor that can plug in your cigarette lighter, or clip on your battery. I have never used enough battery power with my key
machine to need a jump start in any of my vans.

[CYA]

You can sometimes save a lot of money buying a used machine, so keep an eye out for bargains.

See if the power cord is still attached securely and isn't frayed or cracked. Look at the condition of the belt and see if it's cracked or coming apart. Look for rust anywhere, particularly on the horizontal bars the key clamp slides back and forth on. Those are usually carbon steel with no paint or finish on it so they need to remain lubed, both for smooth functioning but also corrosion resistance. If you can, plug it in and see if the motor works properly without smoke, burning smell, sparks or odd noises. With the motor off and the machine unplugged, turn the wheel by hand and see if it turns reasonably smoothly or if the motor is giving lots of resistance to turning by hand. While turning it by hand, turn it very slowly for at least one full revolution and check for chipped teeth on the cutting wheel. Obviously a good test would be to cut a key with it so if you're looking at it in person, take a lock with key and an appropriate blank with you, duplicate the key and see if it works.

Many problems with machines are fixable, some cheaply, so if the machine is damaged don't rule it out entirely, just use it as an opportunity to get a much better deal on it.

I'm certainly no expert, but those are a few things you could check, just off the top of my head.

Also, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see a first post that isn't some variation of "what picks should I buy?" or "please help me open this lock [insert pic of vending machine coin box lock] really fast with no special tools or training!" or "I'm pushing up all the pins and the lock won't open, what am I doing wrong?" that we see on an almost daily basis and can be quickly answered if they took a few minutes to read the FAQ or stickies on the forum.

Thank you for the warm welcoming MBI. I really appreciate the advice otherwise I would be clueless in what to look for.

I think those prices are high. If you can test out the Ilco machine, you will save like $150 over the cost of a new one.
Without knowing how out of adjustment the machine is that could be a loss. Also don't get too excited about 800 keys
the former owner was unable to sell, most of the keys I sell cost me about 14 cents apiece.

I hear some folks don't like the 9120 speedex, but I have been using one for 15 years. Apart from an occasional rebuild all it asks for is oil
I also have a 9160 speedex, which is a larger version of the 9120, if you have the room. I have had that one for over 20 years. You might
be better off buying a new speedex for about $500+ and still have money to put towards key blanks. The Speedex 9120 comes optionally
with a 12vt DC motor that can plug in your cigarette lighter, or clip on your battery. I have never used enough battery power with my key
machine to need a jump start in any of my vans.

There is a mini speedex 9120RM in my area for 250. The thing is its 6 years old. The seller said its only seen used a few times and been in storage since. Do you think this is good machine for the price. Also consider that I'm in Canada and our price and what we pay for some product is higher.

I'm going to continue looking into prices of a new setup cost. Anymore advice or opinions would be great help. Thanks again.

[billdeserthills]

Thing is for many people, properly adjusting the key machine is an impossible task. To understand that let me say
I have a Home Depot, Lowes, Wal mart, true value hdwr & ace hdwr all located around my shop in a big circle. My clients
tell me that currently none of them can cut a key. I heard yesterday that lowes won't even refund your key money, they
just cut you another non-functional key. All of these places started with a new machine and cut thousands of keys before
it went out of adjustment. I am assuming at this point all those machines need new bushings and a new cutter shaft, which
costs about $25, but appears to be beyond reach. That said,
If you can learn to cut a 3rd generation key and to adjust a key machine, the $250 little speedex is a good deal. You need to
try it out, I hear those small 110 vt electric motors are way underpowered

If you just want to make keys you would be better off with a new machine. I don't know what you charge for a key, I get $3.25
so every 30 keys I cut is about another $100. Those are the cheap keys too. The keys those five other stores don't stock can get
very expensive. I cut 4 rolls royce keys last week, bill was over $50