Advice on where to get an Abus 83-IC/45 w/pinned core

[uijoti]

Hey all,

I'm looking to get something that I can re-key/ replace the core. I mainly want to get it to use as a practice lock for learning more advanced/ aggressive security pins. I've seen videos on how to make them and it looks pretty easy. The big thing is I've never worked with pinning and don't know where to start. After some research, I found the 83-IC is probably going to be the most versatile to work with because it accepts SFIC cylinders, but I cannot find where to buy one that comes with a core. I've seen some of the 83-AL that come with a core (I think it's a key-in-knob? with a SFIC adapter) but they are all 0-bitted. Even with those, I'm not entirely sure that all SFIC are equal as far as warding, pin size, etc... and I haven't stumbled across the right information yet. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

Hey all,

I'm looking to get something that I can re-key/ replace the core. I mainly want to get it to use as a practice lock for learning more advanced/ aggressive security pins. I've seen videos on how to make them and it looks pretty easy. The big thing is I've never worked with pinning and don't know where to start. After some research, I found the 83-IC is probably going to be the most versatile to work with because it accepts SFIC cylinders, but I cannot find where to buy one that comes with a core. I've seen some of the 83-AL that come with a core (I think it's a key-in-knob? with a SFIC adapter) but they are all 0-bitted. Even with those, I'm not entirely sure that all SFIC are equal as far as warding, pin size, etc... and I haven't stumbled across the right information yet. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

I don't believe SFIC cores typically use security pins, they're available to be ordered but not common... does it have to be an ABUS padlock body? I think you can easily repin a KIK cylinder with some basic tools such as a plug follower, etc. So a padlock that accepts a KIK Cylinder would probably do.

Are you familiar with Mr.Wizard's repinnable mortise cylinders? He sells them here and on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm//221994098816

[MBI]

I agree with Squelch. Any old lock household lock should suffice for practice, but if you want to simplify disassembly and rekeying then a lock like Mr Wizard's is a good way to go.

I'd avoid SFIC as a practice lock if you want to repin it regularly for practice. SFIC needs some expensive tools to dump, repin and recap the cylinders. In addition to the extra tools, it's a more complicated process calculating the bittings of the control and change key, and picking them will feel a little different than ordinary household locks. Many people find them a bit more difficult to pick.

If you really like padlocks, perhaps because it gives you more to hold onto while picking, a regular non-IC Abus 83/45 can be disassembled. Once unlocked there is a screw under the shackle. Remove the screw and you can take out the cylinder to repin it. Just remember, you do have to unlock it to disassemble it, so if you happen to pin it up really nasty and you're unable to pick it open again, you won't be able to rekey it until you manage to finally pick it.

[uijoti]

I don't believe SFIC cores typically use security pins, they're available to be ordered but not common... does it have to be an ABUS padlock body? I think you can easily repin a KIK cylinder with some basic tools such as a plug follower, etc. So a padlock that accepts a KIK Cylinder would probably do.

Are you familiar with Mr.Wizard's repinnable mortise cylinders? He sells them here and on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm//221994098816

I agree with Squelch. Any old lock household lock should suffice for practice, but if you want to simplify disassembly and rekeying then a lock like Mr Wizard's is a good way to go.

I'd avoid SFIC as a practice lock if you want to repin it regularly for practice. SFIC needs some expensive tools to dump, repin and recap the cylinders. In addition to the extra tools, it's a more complicated process calculating the bittings of the control and change key, and picking them will feel a little different than ordinary household locks. Many people find them a bit more difficult to pick.

If you really like padlocks, perhaps because it gives you more to hold onto while picking, a regular non-IC Abus 83/45 can be disassembled. Once unlocked there is a screw under the shackle. Remove the screw and you can take out the cylinder to repin it. Just remember, you do have to unlock it to disassemble it, so if you happen to pin it up really nasty and you're unable to pick it open again, you won't be able to rekey it until you manage to finally pick it.

Squelchtone, It doesn't have to be a padlock body and I'll look into the kit from Mr. Wizard. I haven't seen those before, thanks!

MBI, Thanks for the heads up on SFIC. I'd like to fully learn pinning eventually, but for now I want to focus on opening locks and making tools. That's a very good point about removing the cylinder.

The main reason why I didn't go with something like the ultimate practice lock or Mr. Wizard's kit initially was because I didn't want to learn the pattern of the lock, how the pin holes are arranged, and use that to an advantage. It seems like after a point, regardless of the pins used, you'd stop and think to yourself "okay, I need to hit pin 4, then 5, 2,7,3,1" or whatever the cylinder happens to be. I might just have the wrong perspective though haha.

[Squelchtone]

The main reason why I didn't go with something like the ultimate practice lock or Mr. Wizard's kit initially was because I didn't want to learn the pattern of the lock, how the pin holes are arranged, and use that to an advantage. It seems like after a point, regardless of the pins used, you'd stop and think to yourself "okay, I need to hit pin 4, then 5, 2,7,3,1" or whatever the cylinder happens to be. I might just have the wrong perspective though haha.

perhaps we misunderstood your original question.. are you saying that you want to have that 1 ABUS padlock body, and like a dozen SFIC cores that are pinned up differently, or are you wanting to have 1 SFIC core that you take apart and remove the pins inside it and rearrange them and put it back into the padlock body? It's sounding like you want a dozen SFIC cores so that they all have different binding order based on their pin chamber manufacturing tolerances.

thanks for helping us understand your needs better,
Squelchtone

[LocksportSouth]

Squelchtone - if that's the OP's intention, that's a really cool idea IMO and not one I've heard bandied around much. I don't know what spare LFIC cores cost as I've never really looked into that side of things so maybe it's just really uneconomical when you can just buy a bunch of padlocks for less, but I like the idea of having all these swappable cores, you could always pin them up in various difficulty levels too such as having 1,2,3,4,5,6 pin stacks populated, then 1 security pin, etc etc.

MBI - good advice about re-pinning a padlock. I've not seen that warned about before but it's a good point indeed.

[uijoti]

perhaps we misunderstood your original question.. are you saying that you want to have that 1 ABUS padlock body, and like a dozen SFIC cores that are pinned up differently, or are you wanting to have 1 SFIC core that you take apart and remove the pins inside it and rearrange them and put it back into the padlock body? It's sounding like you want a dozen SFIC cores so that they all have different binding order based on their pin chamber manufacturing tolerances.

thanks for helping us understand your needs better,
Squelchtone

Yes. 1 body with several cores, which will eventually get repinned when I learn more in the way of pinning and making keys. I'm still learning terminology, so thanks for clarifying the language. It's difficult to find just the sfic cores to purchase individually and with a key. I did like the kit from Mr Wizard and ended up picking one up. I can always use it to teach people who are interested

[Squelchtone]

perhaps we misunderstood your original question.. are you saying that you want to have that 1 ABUS padlock body, and like a dozen SFIC cores that are pinned up differently, or are you wanting to have 1 SFIC core that you take apart and remove the pins inside it and rearrange them and put it back into the padlock body? It's sounding like you want a dozen SFIC cores so that they all have different binding order based on their pin chamber manufacturing tolerances.

thanks for helping us understand your needs better,
Squelchtone

Yes. 1 body with several cores, which will eventually get repinned when I learn more in the way of pinning and making keys. I'm still learning terminology, so thanks for clarifying the language. It's difficult to find just the sfic cores to purchase individually and with a key. I did like the kit from Mr Wizard and ended up picking one up. I can always use it to teach people who are interested

I think you might need to look into how SFIC cores and shearlines work, as MBI said, it's not the ideal type of lock to learn lockpicking on, unless your goal is to just learn how to pick SFIC cores proficiently. and you wont be repinning them without a huge hassle or an expensive set of tools. a padlock that accepts a KIK cylinder however is a better choice because you can buy KIK cylinders for a padlock body, and I think with ABus you can buy SC1 Schlage or KW Kwikset keyway cylinders and those are much easier to take apart and repin and put back in that padlock body and secure using the screw under the shackle as MBI explained, and picking an SC1 Schlage keyway cylinder in that padlock will translate much better to the real world where you might run into a Schlage on someone's house door, versus running into a BEST SFIC that you need to pick.

Matt Blaze has a great write up on SFIC locks over at crypto.com it's worth reading http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

I know you're new to this forum, but I don't know how much background in locks you already have prior to coming here, so I hope I'm not coming off condescending with my advice,
Squelchtone

[uijoti]

I think you might need to look into how SFIC cores and shearlines work, as MBI said, it's not the ideal type of lock to learn lockpicking on, unless your goal is to just learn how to pick SFIC cores proficiently. and you wont be repinning them without a huge hassle or an expensive set of tools. a padlock that accepts a KIK cylinder however is a better choice because you can buy KIK cylinders for a padlock body, and I think with ABus you can buy SC1 Schlage or KW Kwikset keyway cylinders and those are much easier to take apart and repin and put back in that padlock body and secure using the screw under the shackle as MBI explained, and picking an SC1 Schlage keyway cylinder in that padlock will translate much better to the real world where you might run into a Schlage on someone's house door, versus running into a BEST SFIC that you need to pick.

Matt Blaze has a great write up on SFIC locks over at crypto.com it's worth reading http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

I know you're new to this forum, but I don't know how much background in locks you already have prior to coming here, so I hope I'm not coming off condescending with my advice,
Squelchtone

I really don't have a background in locks past what you find at big box stores, so all information is helpful! You're definitely not coming across as condescending. For the KiK setup, I think the 83/45 can use them with an adaptor. I'm looking at the 72/40, which uses KiK but also looks like it might take SFIC and is cheaper. Thanks for the link to the writeup, I'll read that this weekend when I have a little time.

The question remains, where can you get cores that come already keyed?

Exit: here's a link to a bosnianbill video of the 72/40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupbgVBa8WY

[Squelchtone]

The question remains, where can you get cores that come already keyed?

ebay is your friend

Falcon, Arrow, and BEST are the most common names you'll hear when SFIC cores are discussed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331687135289

I believe there is a guy on ebay / in the locksmith world who is really well known for doing mail order SFIC cores pinned up to your liking, and for a cheap price especially if you dont mind the cores used. I forgot his name and I don't believe I see any of his wares on ebay right now. Anyone wanna jump in with who I'm thinking of?

as far as the 72/40 unless it says SFIC it WON'T take an SFIC, a lot of beginners see that figure 8 cutout on the bottom of a padlock and think it is SFIC or can handle a core being inserted, but it can't. The holes just happen to be similar in shape. The ABUS 83AL-IC/40 which is very similar *IS* made to take an SFIC core.

here's some for sale in case you don't have one yet: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111865303348

Thanks
Squelchtone

[kwoswalt99-]

believe there is a guy on ebay / in the locksmith world who is really well known for doing mail order SFIC cores pinned up to your liking, and for a cheap price especially if you dont mind the cores used. I forgot his name and I don't believe I see any of his wares on ebay right now. Anyone wanna jump in with who I'm thinking of?

His name is Tim Monte, and his ebay username is papa777. http://www.ebay.ca/usr/papa777?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
He doesn't seem to be pinning cores anymore.
Another place to get cores. http://www.iccores.com/

[uijoti]

Thanks, guys! Don't know why I didn't check eBay -facepalm-

I might get a hold of pappa777 to see if he still pins, thanks for passing that along. I also checked out iccores, but they don't have online inventory haha. Maybe when I can better speak to what I want I'll give them a call!

[jeffmoss26]

Also talk to averagejoe on this forum.

[MBI]

Also talk to averagejoe on this forum.

Oh man you're right, I completely forgot about about the starter sets he was selling.
uijoti, when you're ready to tackle SFIC locks, averagejoe pins up starter sets with increasing numbers of pins, and increasing difficulty if you want. Good guy to deal with and his prices have always been good too.

[averagejoe]

I would have to check but I think I am pretty much out of stock on those SFIC kits. I am actually really low on cores as well.

I do have security pins though. If you are interested in a Best padlock and cores pinned up however you want (with keys) send me a message.