Comparison of S&G 1951 and 8088 Padlocks

[GWiens2001]

A while back, I received an S&G 3511 padlock (without combination). Had not seen one before. The fact is, had never heard of one before. Can't even seem to find any mention of it anywhere. So decided to change that for when someone else looks for info.

After months of working at the lock, finally worked out the combination. But wanted to share what the lock looked like, so if someone finds one, they can see what it is.

Here is the lock as I got it...





Yes, it is a model 3511



This one was made in 1962. (Amazing that this thing is already over 50 years old!)



Cleaned and opened!



This is a predecessor of the 8088 padlock. The two locks side by side...



Instead of being upraised like the 8088, the 3511 has the S&G logo cast into the lock body. Note that the location changes. 3511 was made in Rochester, New York, while the 8088 was made in Nicholasville, Kentucky. (Both are in the United States). Why they got rid of the old style logo that had so much class is something I'll never understand.

When the lock is open, this button can slide up, opening the change key hole, allowing the combination to be changed. Am sure there are threads here on how to do that. If not, let me know and I'll write one up. More specifically, on the 8088, it slides up. It is not sliding up on the 3511. Not sure if that is due to some difference in function design or that the lock is not functioning correctly. If you know, please post the answer!



On the 3511, the model number is hand stamped on the back of the lock, and below that a cast section showing that the patent is pending...



On the 8088, the model number is cast, along with the patent numbers.



There is a number for identification on the shackle on both models. The 3511:



And the 8088, which also has a clip on the shackle just above where it fits into the lock body when locked:



The next change that noticed is the number and location of pins that hold the back cover on. The 3511 has two pins on the top of the lock, and one on each side of the lock. The 8088 has one pin on top and two pins in each side.









That about covers the difference between the two from what I see. Enjoy!

Pretty sure the original factory combination would have been 10-20-30, same as the early 8088 padlocks. But the later 8088 and 8077 padlocks have a factory combination of 25-0. Since I have not been able to open the change key hole, the combination is whatever it was before I received it, 34-10-23.

Gordon

[LocksportSouth]

That's very cool - I've been looking at the 8088 and 8077 recently but had never heard about the 3511. Good catch and great post, thanks!

[GWiens2001]

That's very cool - I've been looking at the 8088 and 8077 recently but had never heard about the 3511. Good catch and great post, thanks!

There is another in the series that is more common... the 8065. Have one of those too. Maybe I should do posts on operating the different ones. The 8065, in particular, is quite different to operate.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

Actually, that is a very early model 8088, sometimes known as the model 1951. The 3511 and date stamps must have been added on later for some unknown reason.
Very cool lock!

[GWiens2001]

Interesting. Can you tell me more about it?

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

The slide on the change key hole should open. Here's the instructions for a lock of similar vintage 8088 manual PDF The "Pat Pend" mark on yours is the key to identifying the age, as only the very earliest ones did not have the numbers. Here's the only example I could find. It seems they changed the logo at the same time that they added the patent numbers. Yours is also the only one I've ever seen without the green enamel dial. I believe the earliest ones were known as the model 1951's because of this patent. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US2573189.pdf

[Squelchtone]

The slide on the change key hole should open. Here's the instructions for a lock of similar vintage 8088 manual PDF The "Pat Pend" mark on yours is the key to identifying the age, as only the very earliest ones did not have the numbers. Here's the only example I could find. It seems they changed the logo at the same time that they added the patent numbers. Yours is also the only one I've ever seen without the green enamel dial. I believe the earliest ones were known as the model 1951's because of this patent. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US2573189.pdf

nice find on the 1951 number, it leads to this:

sold on ebay in 2013:

[GWiens2001]

Great info! And yes, the little paint that is on that lock dial is black. Any idea when they made the actual change? Will edit the title of the thread to reflect the correct model number.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

I can only guess, but based on the later 8088 patent numbers, I would estimate 1953-1954.