Best Secure-but-Simple Euro Lock

[kwoswalt99-]

~ Somewhat tough to get key into keyway and feels "clicky" to actuate. Related to "self cleaning" function / security pins respectively, I think

The "self cleaning" function has nothing to do with the inside of the lock. It's more of a marketing gimmick I think.

[LocksportSouth]

~ Somewhat tough to get key into keyway and feels "clicky" to actuate. Related to "self cleaning" function / security pins respectively, I think

The "self cleaning" function has nothing to do with the inside of the lock. It's more of a marketing gimmick I think.

I meant that being tough to insert the key was related to the self cleaning function, and the clickyness had to do with the security pins, hence the 'respectively' - but yeah, it probably is, more than likely. That said, it seems much less likely to pick up dirty and debris than the Avocet ABS to me, which have had scattered reports of clogging up with dirt and stuff on the magnet and inside the dimple bitting, gumming up the lock. I haven't heard the same for the Ultion, but then it's much rarer than the ABS since it can only be installed by locksmiths (well, it's only supposed to be, anyway) so I guess that isn't a fair study.

[kwoswalt99-]

~ Somewhat tough to get key into keyway and feels "clicky" to actuate. Related to "self cleaning" function / security pins respectively, I think

The "self cleaning" function has nothing to do with the inside of the lock. It's more of a marketing gimmick I think.

I meant that being tough to insert the key was related to the self cleaning function, and the clickyness had to do with the security pins, hence the 'respectively' - but yeah, it probably is, more than likely. That said, it seems much less likely to pick up dirty and debris than the Avocet ABS to me, which have had scattered reports of clogging up with dirt and stuff on the magnet and inside the dimple bitting, gumming up the lock. I haven't heard the same for the Ultion, but then it's much rarer than the ABS since it can only be installed by locksmiths (well, it's only supposed to be, anyway) so I guess that isn't a fair study.

Sorry, I misread your post.
To answer one of your EVVA questions, the difference between 3ks and 3ks plus is that 3ks plus has a redesigned key tip and patent key control until 2025.

[LocksportSouth]

Sorry, I misread your post.
To answer one of your EVVA questions, the difference between 3ks and 3ks plus is that 3ks plus has a redesigned key tip and patent key control until 2025.

No worries . And ahh okie, similar to the Assa Flexcore vs Flexcore plus then. Cool beans

[ARF-GEF]

Let us know what you settled on when you do
I think both of your finalist look good, though I don't know Brisant, haven't seen one yet

+1 on what Femurat said, the defender thingy is a very good thing

I know I'm starting to sound like a Kaba fanboy, but I think one pro with the kaba is that it looks innocuous, not fancy or flashy. You don't have to be rich to have Kaba on your door. Of course the same is true to some extent to Abloy, but come on, you are not seeing abloy everywhere because they are pricey

[LocksportSouth]

No problem - I will do .
I like the Brisant one but ultimately will probably go with the Kaba, because in an in-door test (that's why I've been buying these, mostly - fit it into their existing front door and have them try it out) the Kaba was rated as easier to use (Brisant tends to get stuck on the key warding, also it looks like a pin tumbler but it technically a dimple and thus stops horizontally, which apparently takes a bit of getting-your-head-around).

Simply put, the Kaba is the most like a normal key .

The Defender I looked at but can't see how you'd fit one with an existing handle. I might recommend a change of handles too to a Hoppe Tokyo PAS 24 (I think that was the number) or the new Mila Prosecure one, both of which do the same job (but there's some weird stuff about sizing and getting a longer cylinder to fit into the sticky out bit on the Mila, so will have to research more).

[ARF-GEF]

Yes, usually you ahve to cahnge the handle as well.
Some have the keyhole part and the lever part built together. There the sizing is usually, the distance between 1. the middle of the axle of the lever and 2. the middle of the keyhole in mm. Most sites which sell these stuff have handy explnaatory pics.

[LocksportSouth]

Yeah, I've mostly got it. The one thing I'm mostly confused about is the extended length cylinder thing.
For the (I think) Mila Prosecure, one of the sites (I can't find it now) mentioned that the cylinder used needs to be a little longer than usual to fit into the extra deep part that protects the cylinder area. So obviously if I bought all the "correct" size cylinders for the door, they might not fit into the handle properly.

Edit: I did find this:

Please note the external part of the Pro Secure security door handle fits over the top of the existing euro cylinder. For the door handle to fit correctly the euro cylinder should protrude past the door face by between 8mm and 14mm as per the below illustration:

Here
Not sure if that's what I came across before but it's a similar idea.

[femurat]

If you already have the cylinders, it's better to buy a defender that needs the wooden part of the door to be cut. Something like the ones you see in this page http://serraturaeuropea.com/defender-po ... antishock/

If you have the correct lock inside the door it's very easy to install a defender, but it's possible even if you don't have it. It's just a matter of drilling two holes for the screws and a big one for the defender itself.

Cheers

[LocksportSouth]

If I were using wood doors and it was my own, owned property I definitely would . However unfortunately they'll be going into uPVC doors and my only remit is to change the lock cylinders, not really the handles (although I will discuss the pros and cons of this with the people involved) and not to do any DIY / drilling work unfortunately. It's a good idea though, but regular handles that don't need any extra drilling with be at the top end of the changes I could potentially make.

I don't have the cylinders yet though. Still looking into the best options, and I've yet to visit the property and find out exactly what they already have in terms of locks and handles, all I know is that they are all uPVC doors.

[LocksportSouth]

Let us know what you settled on when you do

We ended up going with the Kaba (GeGe) pExtra Guard due to its ease of use for people who are used to "normal" locks, and reputation behind the brand name as well as good security-for-price tradeoff. In the end it worked out to be just two Euros and two 1/2 Oval, so it was a bit cheaper than expected, even all keyed alike. The handles turned out to already be quite secure (just thin shrouds where the handles go in, only a couple of mm thick) so no reason to get security handles either. They're on order now and should turn up in a week or so, then I'll be over to get it all set up for them .

Thanks to everyone for for your help and advice, it's very much appreciated .

[ARF-GEF]

I think that is a good choice, I hope it serves you well

[LocksportSouth]

I've hit a small snag, which I'm hoping someone can help with. No big deal if not, for reasons I'll explain .

So, it turned out that three full Euro cylinders and two half Ovals were needed. The full Euros were for outer doors, and the half Ovals go on the inside of two other outer doors, however the lock does not protrude from the outside and can only be accessed from the inside. On that basis, replacement locks weren't "really" needed but for a complete, keyed-alike solution we decided to replace all locks. The Euros came through fine, however unfortunately they sent half-Euros rather than half-Ovals so they had to go back.

The half ovals finally came through today and despite fitting the keyed alike profile and being technically correct, it turns out that the actuators on the ones in the door are totally different from the ones that arrived. Unfortunately they're non-returnable except in cases of "DOA" product and incorrect spec on their end (such as sending the half euros), so I'm "stuck" with these (new picking project? Haha). However the closest thing that I've seen to the existing locks is the rear of my Ruko cylinders, which makes sense since these are Ruko branded also. However they also have a long stick coming out of the actuator, similar to a mortice door latch.

Just wondering if anyone can identify the old Ruko lock cylinder type? It appears that it's just just a regular straight half oval. I very much doubt that I can get a new Kaba in that old lock's form factor (and it doesn't really matter much anyway, since at this point they're really more being used as thumbturns anyway), but it would be interesting to know what's up with these older locks and if there's a way to get a new Kaba pExtra Guard in that form factor.

Here's some pics:

Cylinders side by side - old one on top, new at the bottom:



Showing the size difference:



The backs of both - old on the left, new on the right. Note that the old style one cuts off just after the end of the cylinder, and the back of the plug is attached directly to that Z shaped actuator plate (similar to Ruko padlocks), from which the long actuator stick protrudes, whereas the new lock has a regular Euro style cam, and then a bit more metal at the back to hold it in place. Also, the old style locks attaches to the door with two screws screwed in directly from the front (you can see the two screw holes), whereas the new one takes a screw from the side in the same way as a regular full Euro:



You can see the side screw here:



The fronts of both locks - old Ruko on the left, new on the right:




Thanks for any insights . It's not vital that these be replaced but it's interesting that they seem to use a totally different type of cam; one that I've not seen in any of my other research for trying to find a half Euro.

[LockPickKing]

What about the Nemef 1429 nf4 series (SKG***)?
I've installed them in my home some time ago when I wassn't into lockpicking yet.

[ARF-GEF]

Weir,d it's not just the cam, the size is also different as is the method of fixing it.

I always thought the scandianvians are standardised as well, and that the ones with 2 holes going all the way through are going on the inside the others on the outside.