S&G 8065 padlock operation

[GWiens2001]

Decided it was time to make a post on operating the 8065 shackleless padlock from Sargent and Greenleaf. Older lock not in use anymore, and rather fiddly to get it to work if you are not familiar with it. So let's see how it works!

This is the lock with packaging, instructions, mounting screws and change key. (Last two items listed are still in the box).



From the front:



the side...



And back...



Now this lock does NOT use the same change key as the model 1951, 8088 or 8077 locks. Not even similar.



Will show how to use the change key later. Here is the instruction sheet that comes with the lock.



This is the push button. This is an important part. Lock will not work without using this sucker.



OK, operation of the lock. The factory combination for the 8065 is 10-20-30 (then turn to zero). The dialing for unlocking is the same as a 1951, 8088 or 8077. Dialing directions are the same as a normal S&G safe lock.

Start by turning the dial counter-clockwise until the first number of the combination (10) comes up to the opening index for the fourth time.



Now turn the dial clockwise until the second number of the combination (20) comes up to the opening index for the third time.



Turn the dial counter-clockwise until the third number of the combination (30) comes up to the opening index for the second time.



Now turn the dial clockwise directly to 0.



Here is where the that push button comes in (for the first time in this tutorial). Push the button in fully, then release it fully.







Now turn the dial clockwise until it stops turning.



What is happening when you are turning the dial clockwise this time (if you have entered the correct combination) is seen on the back. The locking bolt is retracting.

This is the locking bolt in the locked position.



Half way...



And unlocked!



To show how truly amazing this write-up is, you can look at the last three pictures in reverse order, and see what happens if you turn the dial counter-clockwise after unlocking the lock. It relocks! Will wonders never cease?

Now how to change the combination. First, you must remove the lock from the shoe. From the what, you ask? Read on, oh fearless lock enthusiasts, and you will see.

Enter the combination the same way you did to unlock the padlock. 10-20-30-0, push the button fully in, the release it fully. Now push the button in so it is about halfway between the two red stripes on the push button. Hold the button there!



While holding the button there, turn the dial counter-clockwise until the dial either stops or starts turning easily. (The lock might do either).



Lift up on the lock, and it slides out of the shoe. (Now you can see what the shoe is!!!)



As a side note, there are three mounting screws that come with the lock that secure the shoe to the filing cabinet. Those would fit in the beveled holes in the shoe. The square hole we will address in a moment.

Here is the back of the lock now that it is removed from the shoe. The small round part is what holds it in the shoe. The funny shaped hole is the change key hole.



While the lock is secured in the shoe, that stud sticks out into the square hole of the shoe.





When you have followed the above instructions, the stud retracts flush with the back of the lock.



Well now, we are progressing nicely, aren't we?

Ready to use the change key? Not yet you aren't! Dial in the same combination as you use to open the lock, but dial it to the change index instead of the opening index.

10



20



30



0 (Yes, you have to use the 0 number, too).



Insert the change key..







... and turn it counter-clockwise.



You then dial the combination to whatever you want it to be. Do this the same way as you did to open the lock, but using the change index... NOT THE OPENING INDEX! Sorry for yelling, but it is important.

Now remove the change key by turning it clockwise removing.





This next step is vitally important, so do not skip it. Dial the combination to the change index and see if the change key will go fully into the change key hole and turn. If so, good. Try it a couple more times. Still works? Great, you are ready to reassemble. If not, you can try looking into the change key hole while you dial the combination and get it right.

OK, assuming the combination works, let's put the lock back into the shoe.

Now enter the combination to the change index (ending the combination by turning to 0, like above).



Press the button down fully, and release it fully. Turn the dial right until it stops.



Now the lock will feel like it is bound up, and you will think you have screwed up the lock. If so, you probably did the same thing wrong I did the first time, and the lock is trashed. Just kidding. There is nothing wrong. You will have to turn the dial back and forth firmly three or four times for the lock to release the dial. Then everything is fine. But as I panicked when it happened to me the first time, and it does it on all four of these locks I have played with, it must be normal. And did not want you to freak out.

So now you know how to work these locks. Quite a bit different than an 8088!

Hope you didn't mind looking at so many pics of a dial.

Gordon

[Raymond]

Great explanatory text. Thanks!

[femurat]

To show how truly amazing this write-up is, you can look at the last three pictures in reverse order, and see what happens if you turn the dial counter-clockwise after unlocking the lock. It relocks! Will wonders never cease?

lol no the wonder never cease! Great write up as usual.

Cheers

[LocksportSouth]

Awesome stuff. I love these detailed and clearly explained guides and breakdowns, handy for me too as I'm looking into the 80** S&G locks at the moment too. Thanks!

[GWiens2001]

Reading this thread again, realized an important omission. Really should point out that while you see pictures of the lock lying on its back on the table, the lock will not work in that position. The lock was that way in the pictures because it will not sit upright on the table for pictures like a nice, well behaved lock. The back of the lock must be perpendicular to the table, floor or whatever.

If you dial the correct combination, press the button, and turn the dial to retract the shackle (or withdraw the post that holds the lock in the shoe), the dial will keep turning just as if you had entered the wrong combination.

So if you are trying this lock out, be sure not to have it flat on the table.

Gordon

[LocksportSouth]

That's a strange and incredibly important fact - thank you! I'll remember that for mine

[DangerDane]

I wonder what that moveable "bolt" are going to grab unto to prevent opening of the cabinet its installed on etc.

[LocksportSouth]

I wonder what that moveable "bolt" are going to grab unto to prevent opening of the cabinet its installed on etc.

I, too have been trying to visualise how that works. It has fixing holes on the back so it sits with its back flat against some surface, but the locking bolt is also recessed on the back, I assume to lock into some kind of round staple plate that fits into the slot on the back.

All I can think of is maybe it sits on the actual drawer of a filing cabinet, say, and a staple is attached to the underside of the frame between the drawer that the lock is on, and the next one up. So the lock is attached with its back on the drawer and the drawer slides back, engaging the stationary slim staple on the frame. Pulling the drawer out would require removing the locking bolt which is in the staple's hole, attaching the frame of the unit to the drawer front via the padlock. Totally a guess though but that's one way that it could work.

[GWiens2001]

Could be wrong, but pretty sure the shoe is supposed to be mounted to the drawer or door, and a hasp is mounted on the top or side of the filing cabinet.

Unlocking the lock allows the drawer or door to be opened without removing the lock from the shoe.

If you need to remove the lock (to change the combination), you would need to unlock it, open the drawer, lock the padlock with the drawer open, then follow the directions to get the lock out of the shoe.

I say this information based on an educated guess, as have never seen these installed in the wild.

EDIT: Looks like LocksportSouth thinks the same way!

Gordon

[averagejoe]

Here are a few other uses for the 8065 padlocks. Please click the image to go to imgur then click that image to have it in full size to read it easier.

[GWiens2001]

Great addition, AverageJoe!

Gordon

[MacGnG1]

these are quite a PITA to open! but this is a great write up! thanks

[kwoswalt99-]

Reading this thread again, realized an important omission. Really should point out that while you see pictures of the lock lying on its back on the table, the lock will not work in that position. The lock was that way in the pictures because it will not sit upright on the table for pictures like a nice, well behaved lock. The back of the lock must be perpendicular to the table, floor or whatever.

If you dial the correct combination, press the button, and turn the dial to retract the shackle (or withdraw the post that holds the lock in the shoe), the dial will keep turning just as if you had entered the wrong combination.

So if you are trying this lock out, be sure not to have it flat on the table.

Gordon

How then could the lock be used as in figures 3 and 4?

[GWiens2001]

I just tried mine again, so yes it can be mounted that way. Maybe since I was concentrating on pictures rather than dialing, was dialing it incorrectly.

Gordon

[L4R3L2]

I have one of these with an unknown combination. I'm going to run through a brute force routine using 5s and 10s. I've never opened one of these, so I have some questions.

When you push and release the button at zero after running a valid combination, is there a different feel or sound in the click than when an invalid combination is entered?

I'm surprised the dial has to be turned so far to retract the bolt. I wasn't expecting that. I've been giving a quick clockwise turn from zero by about 5 to 10 numbers. Can you feel the bolt retracting (is there a positive feel from the start of turning), or would I likely miss it if tuning the dial a fraction of the full distance? (Anything to streamline the process.)

I thought the red marks might be where the dial would be expected to stop at bolt retraction, but I guess that is not the case in light of what I'm seeing here. Does anyone know what the quarterly red marks represent?

Does the dialing have to be as precise with this lock as on the 8077 or 8088 (which run +/- 1/2 increment only)?

Can you set the first two numbers, and work up to the third number by fives, pushing and releasing the button and turning to attempt to withdraw the shackle at each setting? I can explain this more fully if it is ambiguous. I'm talking about brute forcing and running the third wheel around by fives.