Query about better handcuffs

[C locked]

Hi
Im curious about the better quality handcuffs
Specifically how a handcuff can be made better
I know there are handcuffs using medeco cylinders
But if they are still basically operating on the
same mechanism, the ratchet catch and
the double lock function
Then surely the weakness inherent in
that design is also inthe better quality ones

Also has anybody analysed the function a handcuff
Actually needs to do. I expect so. Just hoping to get
better minds than mine on it because i cannot find
An answer

[GWiens2001]

If you use the dual-locking mechanism, then the inherent weakness of the pawl is neutralized. It also keeps the person wearing the handcuffs from closing them too tight, potentially doing damage to themselves.

Gordon

[C locked]

Thanks gordon

[C locked]

http://youtu.be/Fzlqki0Rzaw

What i ment was how does one stop
the defeat shown in the link above
(Spring defeated by slamming)
I don't know how the better quality handcuffs work
But i suspect the design is the same

[GWiens2001]

Correctly put on a person's wrists, trying that method will be very, very difficult, not to mention exceedingly painful and likely to break bones in the wrist and cause permanent nerve damage. Not a recommended method.

Plus, as stated before, if the handcuffs are double-locked the method will not work anyway.

Gordon

[C locked]

I dont doubt that it would be excruciating
But ive seen stupid people do stupid things
And believe that they will continue to do so
In their attempt to gain entry to or freedom from
Locks
In other words
"Make something idiot proof, they'll make a better idiot"

And unless I misunderstood the point of the video(double check the lock)
He first slammed the handcuffs out from the double locked position
Then proceeded to shim

But this digression from my original post of better handcuffs is really 2 questions of
"Do the better quality cuffs use the same double lock mechanism?"
"And for example are the cylinders on the medeco cuffs hollow thru and thus susceptible to a bypass similar to the American padlock? Or the medeco m3"

Mods- If this is advanced due to discussion of bypass
Just tell me so, and edit appropriately

[GWiens2001]

As I understand it, the handcuffs with Medeco or ASSA Desmo locks are normal handcuffs with a plastic housing that holds on the high security lock core.

Gordon

[C locked]

Thank you gordon
Forgive my ignorant question
But the only experience ive had with cuffs
Was fluffy

[Squelchtone]

Hi
Im curious about the better quality handcuffs
Specifically how a handcuff can be made better
I know there are handcuffs using medeco cylinders
But if they are still basically operating on the
same mechanism, the ratchet catch and
the double lock function
Then surely the weakness inherent in
that design is also inthe better quality ones

Also has anybody analysed the function a handcuff
Actually needs to do. I expect so. Just hoping to get
better minds than mine on it because i cannot find
An answer

Here's the thing.. the design of something like a handcuff doesn't have to parallel the design and innovation of something like a modern high security deadbolt or lock cylinder.

Handcuffs are a temporary locking method to keep someone restrained so the person can be moved or transported or kept from easily harming themselves or someone else. In that sense they have to be easy to use, put on and remove, and be somewhat universal so if one officer locks someone up and then another office from possibly another jurisdiction has to unlock the person, the same key works. a Handcuff doesn't need to be bulletproof and pick proof and made to last like a $200 deadbolt is expected to last and function.

I've held both $10 dollar army navy store handcuffs as well as $30 dollar Peerless handcuffs and the difference in quality is incredible. The novelty stuff is just that, and the "real" handcuffs made by S&W, Peerless, ASP, Hiatt, and other well known companies are already well made and feel well made. I think they should make it easier to double lock though, pressing that little pin using the back of the key is not fun while I'm cuffed my self, I can only imagine it is more of a pain to double lock a prisoner who is resisting and in a dark alley outside somewhere. the double locking should be just a button you press with your finger. That's the sort of innovation/design I'd look into.

It would be interesting to know if the shackles in cuffs that are used often get loose and how often cuffs are replaced in busy police departments or if a police officer uses the same pair for 20 years, I can see that becoming a very personal item like their gun or badge and they may want to use those cuffs and not turn them in for new ones.

[handcuffsdude]

One of the most innovative things i've seen in handcuffs i've described in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=62205

Having the 'anti-pick-shield' in the middle of the split ratchets. And then having the ratchet with a gap in the middle also makes picking a lot harder...

a Handcuff doesn't need to be bulletproof and pick proof and made to last like a $200 deadbolt is expected to last and function.

I've held both $10 dollar army navy store handcuffs as well as $30 dollar Peerless handcuffs and the difference in quality is incredible.

Man, I wish i lived where you live. It's costing me hundreds of dollars to buy these different sets of cuffs. Like I paid almost $200 AUD for a set of German 'high-security' split key cuffs recently.
So am I not allowed to expect $200 deadbolt quality then?

I think they should make it easier to double lock though, pressing that little pin using the back of the key is not fun while I'm cuffed my self, I can only imagine it is more of a pain to double lock a prisoner who is resisting and in a dark alley outside somewhere. the double locking should be just a button you press with your finger. That's the sort of innovation/design I'd look into.

One of the solutions to fumbling around with the tiny key are things like the 'Kwik Keys' from ASP (see: http://www.handcuffwarehouse.com/aspexpokey.html )
This at least gives you something bigger to hold only. But i agree. I'm imaging a 'set-once with a switch to engage the double lock' that you just have to flick. And then have to use the key to disengage.

[MBI]

I think they should make it easier to double lock though, pressing that little pin using the back of the key is not fun while I'm cuffed my self, I can only imagine it is more of a pain to double lock a prisoner who is resisting and in a dark alley outside somewhere. the double locking should be just a button you press with your finger. That's the sort of innovation/design I'd look into.

A lot of cops I've known carry larger cuff keys. There are different types out there, some are more or less like a regular cuff key but are about 3" long and have a slightly fatter key bow, some are about the size of a pen, maybe just a little shorter. Using larger keys like that make it a lot easier, instead of fumbling with the tiny keys. Those tiny keys I usually just kept as emergency backups, like one on my personal keychain, hide another one or two on your person somewhere.

Once you practice with them, cuff people a few hundred times, hitting the double lock just sort of becomes second nature. It can be a little fiddly at times but if it's dark, if the suspect is fighting, etc the important thing is to just get him cuffed and under control. You can double lock it later once things have settled down and you're putting him in the car.

Sometimes different cuffs also have different double locking buttons. On Peerless cuffs (probably most common with police around here) it's that little recessed button on the edge of the cuff, but on S&W cuffs (most common with private security guards around here) it's a slot on the larger side of the cuffs with a tab in it that you slide sideways with the end of the key. It's a little easier to operate for users who haven't practiced as much.

It would be interesting to know if the shackles in cuffs that are used often get loose and how often cuffs are replaced in busy police departments or if a police officer uses the same pair for 20 years, I can see that becoming a very personal item like their gun or badge and they may want to use those cuffs and not turn them in for new ones.

Shackles are a bit tighter when cuffs are new and loosen up with use. When you carry cuffs you "preload" them by clicking them closed a certain number of clicks so you can cuff with muscle memory; when you press the cuff against the wrist it flips around and snaps closed around the wrist in a fluid movement (you never whack it against the wrist like in the movies as that can break wrist bones). If you're accustomed to "broken-in" cuffs, it can mess with your mojo when you try to cuff with brand new cuffs that are stiffer.

The double locking mechanism can also loosen up with use. A LOT. I've seen some cuffs that were so loose you could just tilt it back and forth and the double lock would engage and disengage via gravity. You pretty much need to buy new cuffs when that happens.

And on that subject, I don't recall every being able to use the technique of smacking the cuffs against something hard to disengage the double lock on brand new cuffs. At least not when properly cuffed. The only times I think I've ever been able to get it to work were on well broken-in cuffs where the double lock wasn't as stiff as when they're new. If you're improperly cuffed, that's a different story. when your palms are facing towards each other it's an awful lot easier to get the cuffs out in front of you and hit them against something.

[RumballSolutions]

I carried and used SafLok mkIV cuffs for over 10 years. They are a pretty solid design and often referred to as a high security handcuff, but like every other handcuff in existence they are not a substitute for diligent supervision. A properly supervised and managed offender doesn't get the opportunity to exploit a weakness.

That said, I would rate the SafLok over the Peerless, S&W or ASP cuffs any day. The rotating double lock mechanism and more restrictive keyway make life a lot harder when trying to bypass or manipulate them open. Just having to twist a knob to engage double locking really encourages users to double lock each and every time.

The only comment I will make is that the chain in the MKIV can be the weak link (pardon the pun). I've have personally witnessed them snapped both intentionally and unintentionally, which really lets the whole system down. I guess that's why the MKV was introduced with the hinged link - never saw one of those fail, but they are bloody unwieldy and heavy to carry.

Examples:

http://www.handcuffwarehouse.com/adihas.html

[handcuffsdude]

I carried and used SafLok mkIV cuffs for over 10 years.

That said, I would rate the SafLok over the Peerless, S&W or ASP cuffs any day. The rotating double lock mechanism and more restrictive keyway make life a lot harder when trying to bypass or manipulate them open. Just having to twist a knob to engage double locking really encourages users to double lock each and every time.

That price though

They do look like excellent cuffs and i'd love to get a set to play with. Good to see that someone has invented the twist knob to engage the double-lock. That's a great idea.

Any idea on the possibility of shimming those open?

I like the quote from
http://www.handcuffwarehouse.com/adihas.html

In test conditions, the complex tumbler lock has prevented attempts, even by expert locksmiths, to open the cuffs.

Have any of us had a go yet? Cause that sample key biting doesn't look wildly complex...

[MBI]

I carried and used SafLok mkIV cuffs for over 10 years. They are a pretty solid design and often referred to as a high security handcuff...

That said, I would rate the SafLok over the Peerless, S&W or ASP cuffs any day.

They look pretty nice and I'd love a chance to play with a pair, but that price tag... DANG. I'd sure hope they're an awful lot nicer than typical cuffs like S&W or Peerless, seeing as how SafLok is more than 10x the price of typical models in those other brands.

In test conditions, the complex tumbler lock has prevented attempts, even by expert locksmiths, to open the cuffs.

Have any of us had a go yet? Cause that sample key biting doesn't look wildly complex...

I'm guessing the key phrase there is "In test conditions," probably meaning "cuffed behind the back, palms facing away from each other." Even if they found a locksmith who was a skilled lockpicker, it's unlikely he'd ever practiced getting out of cuffs.

It's hard enough to twist your hands around when properly cuffed and open them with the key.
Even harder to pick them in those conditions.
If you have to both apply tension and pick the cuff's pin tumbler lock while cuffed like that, even a simple bitting would be rather problematic.

[RumballSolutions]

Price did not concern me, they were given to me along with a badge and a Glock23 After 12 years I gave them back. I miss their innovative design, but I do not miss having to apply them.

As for picking, I'm sure most pickers would figure it out eventually, but you'll break a few picks in the process. I won't give away the secret, but they are neither pin tumbler or wafer tumbler in the traditional sense. Good luck getting them apart to remove the core too!

They can be shimmed.

Their main security is simply using a less common key format, though it is not particularly sophisticated being just a stamped key with a simple warding. The keyway is very narrow and that stamped side ward is significant enough an obstruction. That said, they can be cut from a piece of sheet steel and the side ward formed by swaging over some form of round stock (i.e. A nail).

I once saw a very nice homemade key that was gold plated and shaped like a crucifix. Would be exceptionally easy to miss on casual inspection, however standard procedure is to remove all jewellery upon arrest and prior to transport.