I found a safe with a "manifoil" combination lock on it

[soakes]

Hi everyone,
The house that I bought last year has an old safe left behind in it. The safe is locked. I hope to get it open somehow, starting with non-destructive, non-invasive techniques, if possible! It is locked with a combination lock which bears the inscription "C M MANIFOIL". The C and M are in large letters above the word.

An internet search reveals many Mk4 manifoils and a fair amount of information about them, but very little about manifoils predating them. From the reading I have done, I think my lock is a Mk2, or possibly a Mk3. However, it may not have been referred to as such until more recently.

Before I plunge into learning how to open this lock, I would like to find out as much information as possible about it. Does anyone here know anything about these locks?

- soakes

[Squelchtone]

I have moved your post from This Old Lock to This Old Safe.

That lock is no joke, I have one sitting on the shelf next to me. Have you ever done any safe work before? If not, good luck opening it like they do in the movies. What's your background with safes and locks?

Also, photos of the safe in question would be great as we dont offer help to strangers on the web, cuz who knows if its their safe or not. upload photos to http://imgur.com and paste the links here.

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[soakes]

The safe itself is a whole other story. I will post about that later. At the moment I am interested in knowing more about the lock.
I have no experience at all with safes. I have started reading a few articles and a book about combination locks. I do not intend to open it like they do in the movies ... but I hope to at least give it a good try before I give up.

Here is a photo of the lock:


...and the safe:


- soakes

[kwoswalt99-]

I thought we sorted this out already... Yours is a MK3. What else do you want to know?

[soakes]

I thought we sorted this out already... Yours is a MK3. What else do you want to know?

I'm not sure what you're talking about.
How do you know it is a Mk3? What is the difference between a Mk3 and a Mk4? What about a Mk2?

- soakes

[kwoswalt99-]

Well, since I can only see the dial, I can't be positively sure, but that is an MKIII dial. Mechanically you can consider it the same as the MKIV. Yours is probably mid 60's. MkII's had different dials and mechanisms.

[soakes]

Mechanically you can consider it the same as the MKIV.

OK, I guess that was the main thing I wanted to know. Thanks. I think I read somewhere that Mk3s had MkIII printed on the dial, similar to the MkIVs. That's why I guessed mine is a MkII.

MkII's had different dials and mechanisms.

What does a MkII dial look like?

- soakes

[kwoswalt99-]

What does a MkII dial look like?

Some look similar to your red MKIII dial, but they have gold or white lettering. The earliest MkII's simply say Milners Manifoil.

Is your goal to get the safe open non-destructively, or is it to get it open non-destructively yourself, ie would you consider a hiring a locksmith?

[femurat]

As MBI already told you on another forum, that's a Pac-Manifoil

I honestly think that a person can't learn how to manipulate this lock on his own. For example, I have some experience with safe locks. I've successfully manipulated my first group 2 safe lock four years ago. I've opened many others after that, and enjoy it very much. One year ago I bought a manifoil like yours and tried to manipulate it without any luck. After a few attempts I realized I was going nowhere, so I gave up.

Anyway, you have two options to open this safe non destructively:

1 - test all the possible combinations. I know it will take time, but you will open it sooner or later.
2 - hire a safe tech (not a generic locksmith, a locksmith specialized in safes) to open it for you.

And don't forget to tell us how this story ends.

Good luck

[soakes]

Thanks
I suspect the story won't end for a long time... but I am going to read about combination locks and manipulation and find a simpler lock to practice with. After that I will at least have some idea how the pac-manifoil works.... then... who knows?!

- soakes

[Squelchtone]

Thanks
I suspect the story won't end for a long time... but I am going to read about combination locks and manipulation and find a simpler lock to practice with. After that I will at least have some idea how the pac-manifoil works.... then... who knows?!

- soakes

oh sure sure, I see how it is, ask on keypicking first and then come here... I understand.. my feelings don't matter.. *snif snif*..

Many members and moderators here are on there and vice versa.

[GWiens2001]

Maybe he figured he'd get better answers here than from The Dark Side. Searching for true expertise. Cheer up, Squelchtone.

Gordon

[RumballSolutions]

Maybe he figured he'd get better answers here than from The Dark Side. Searching for true expertise. Cheer up, Squelchtone.

Gordon

In the end, when you shop around for answers you usually just end up with the same answer and sore feet.

I thought soakes may have picked up on the reason why AUS/UK techs were reluctant to discuss manifoils in relation to unknown parties given their govt. usage. While his container may be fine, the lock is something that some parties seek to protect a little given some similarities within the series. Getting old, but not yet gone....

Also, given the design and level of experience it would be a big task. As a colleague stated, consider hiring a competent tech or enjoy looking at your really nice paperweight.

As I'm also a GSA tech, I apply the same discretion if people start asking questions about FL-2740 type locks.

[kwoswalt99-]

Thanks
I suspect the story won't end for a long time... but I am going to read about combination locks and manipulation and find a simpler lock to practice with. After that I will at least have some idea how the pac-manifoil works.... then... who knows?!

- soakes

oh sure sure, I see how it is, ask on keypicking first and then come here... I understand.. my feelings don't matter.. *snif snif*..

Many members and moderators here are on there and vice versa.

There was an even older thread on another forum. Too bad you missed it.

[soakes]

Yep. This is at least the third forum I have asked questions on regarding my safe. I am obviously aware that there is a big overlap between the members of each forum, but I also expected (correctly) to receive slightly different responses on each.

It's nothing personal

Indeed, I am still trying to work out which forum is better for what purpose...

- soakes