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Sparrows Vorax Kit

When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby Joshua904 » 17 Feb 2016 13:16

DrDave-USA wrote:----------------------------------------------------------
Hi... The “SPARROWS Sandman" was a "Home-Brew" tool I first created back in the mid 1980's
*snip*
ENJOY and THANX to SPARROWS!!!


Awesome! I have one in my shopping cart now.. Just have to trim down some things. Apparently just adding everything I want isn't cooperating with my budget.
User avatar
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Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby DrDave-USA » 19 Feb 2016 18:09

Awesome! I have one in my shopping cart now.. Just have to trim down some things. Apparently just adding everything I want isn't cooperating with my budget.
.........................................................................................................................
Hey Joshua904....

SPARROWS and I Thank You !!!

You'll find it works best on locks with radicle bitting, by using "Hole-UP".... Rock/Jiggle while pulling back out of cylinder slowly. PLEASE post after you get OPEN after OPEN !!! If UR a locksmith, your budget will also thank you with quicker service calls.....
Image
Picking since 1969, STILL LEARNING !!!!!
DrDave-USA
 
Posts: 12
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Location: Las Vegas - USA

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby QuantumEntangled » 19 Feb 2016 20:30

Dr.Dave,
I am relatively new to lockpicking in that I have been at it for only a year so I am still learning. My question was how could you tell if the lock you are working at opening would benefit from an Octorake tool? Assuming you could not see the key to understand the bitting. IOW is there a tactile sensation in the pick that would tell you to try the octo? I am trying to develop my feedback processing so that's why I was wondering. Obviously one could disassemble the lock but I thought maybe some specific type of feedback could clue you in. It seems like a very thoughtful and intuitive tool and I wanted to know how to get the most from it.
Thank you Doc.
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Posts: 34
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Re: Sparrows Vorax / reply

Postby DrDave-USA » 19 Feb 2016 23:58

QuantumEntangled wrote:Dr.Dave,
I am relatively new to lockpicking in that I have been at it for only a year so I am still learning. My question was how could you tell if the lock you are working at opening would benefit from an Octorake tool? Assuming you could not see the key to understand the bitting. IOW is there a tactile sensation in the pick that would tell you to try the octo? I am trying to develop my feedback processing so that's why I was wondering. Obviously one could disassemble the lock but I thought maybe some specific type of feedback could clue you in. It seems like a very thoughtful and intuitive tool and I wanted to know how to get the most from it.
Thank you Doc.

----------------------------------------------------
HiHo QuantumEntangled....

BTW, G R E A T Handle or Forum Name, it seem to me that you are proceeding on a right path.... 1) You are THINKING on a Forward and Upward path and 2) UR wondering and questioning "WHY, IF and HOW". If you continue to keep you mind open on those paths there is not too many things in Locks nor LIFE that you will not be able to master...

Unfortunately that is probably not the answer you were looking for, but if you consider that each and every lock as well as lock-type could be attacked with an Octo-Rake or Bogota then you will begin to develop your very own personal "Data Bank" in your own mind.... Soon, you'll have the experience that, for example, a warded padlock will be best and possibly fasted attacked with "Warded Skelton-Type key" or maybe a long "Flag-type" pick, then KNOWING you need NOT pull out a rake of any sort for those type locks.

Basicly what I'm saying, is that there is really NO substitute for experience and practice, practice, practice. Normally part of my LP101 signature was: Picking since 1969, still Learning !!! / Creator of SPARROWS Sandman.... Squelchtone/Admin thought it was a bit long, and he was right. He also suggested that I put "all that stuff" in the graphic of the right size... Point there is, it is ALWAYS best to offer a solution to someone while critiquing something that someone has done. I just have not had the time to resize the graphic here...

As for your question: "is there a tactile sensation in the pick that would tell you to try the octo? I am trying to develop my feedback processing so that's why I was wondering": Short Answer is YES; normally on a standard US-type pin tumbler lock, a Rake (Octo-Type) is almost always the first tool I pull. With light to Medium tension, and 10-seconds or so you too will develop a rather keen sense as which tool is next, providing you don't get an "OPEN" with the Rake. BTW that "OPEN" occurs more often than not, or WILL Occur after your practice, practice, practice. I really enjoy watching BosianBill SPP with Top Of Keyway and a Peterson Gem, however in "Real-World" if UR Picking a lock out in the open, you will want an "OPEN" as FAST as possible.... That's why the Hours, even DAYS of practice, practice, practice can and SHOULD be done as often as possible. One more thing on that point; I have made it my practice to get as many keyways and lock-types as possible. If affordable get a small "rekey-set" of security pins and always save any and all lock pieces-parts. Repin the tumblers of the locks that you will find most often in your adventures. Local Locksmiths can be most helpful there, but even if you do EVERYTHING yourself, get to KNOW the cylinders by repinning them to EVERY possible configuration as you can, continue to challenge yourself. As much as I enjoy Bill and his 750 videos, you/I can pick up good and even GREAT Ideas but more often than not, you/I NEED to follow-up with that good old fashioned practice!!!

I'd say "Good Luck" but really, it's ALL up to YOU.........
Image
Picking since 1969, STILL LEARNING !!!!!
DrDave-USA
 
Posts: 12
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Location: Las Vegas - USA

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby QuantumEntangled » 20 Feb 2016 20:55

Dr.,
Thanks so much for the response! I definitely hear you on the practice. So far I have sourced many pin tumbler locks to practice on. How right you are in that each one has its own personality so to speak. And with each success, I do take away certain tidbits however small they may seem. My library is small-ish right now but grows each week.

I practice every day even if it's a ten minute session with an easy kwikset just to stay nimble. Some kwiksets seem to open just by seeing a d rake or bogota. Others like some Schlage deadbolts or a ridiculously hard Abus padlock I have require a more attuned hook attack. I really can relate to using a combination of tools. Rake to get started followed by a small hook. (or Peterson half diamond which works freakishly well sometimes.)

I like that the octo was born out of necessity--you needed a specific tool so you created it--thats freakin cool and what picking is all about. Sometimes a paradigm shift is beneficial. It's a nice tool and will be a fond addition to my set.

Thanks for the compliment on the handle name and the kind words. Ihave always questioned things and sought to understand them conceptually as well as how to apply them. I enjoy studying quantum theory in my spare time and it has led me to some truths about existence.

We are all interconnected on a very basic and primal level that I can barely understand. It's significance and stark profundity is almost unnerving in its complete and utter omniscience. I struggle with such concepts (Jung would call them "Big" ideas) and find them difficult to integrate into my everyday life because the enormity of its subtleties pervades everything but to most folks, including me sometimes, it is reduced to background chatter. How strange that one of the most important aspects of human consciousness and spirituality goes virtually unnoticed?

Anyway, sorry for the tangent. To get back to lockpicking: I am going to take your words and advice and really digest what is happening inside the lock when I work with the octo. I am going to practice and practice some more. Thank you for a thoughtful reply my friend and wow; you must know virtually everything about lockpicking. I saw in your sig that you have been at it since 1969!!
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Reply4: Sparrows Vorax / Octo / Sandman

Postby DrDave-USA » 20 Feb 2016 22:29

QuantumEntangled,

First & foremost, THE OCTO-Rake is NOT of my design, although I have many rakes that look somewhat like the SPARROWS Octo Rake, only the Sandman is directly of my design. I upped a Video of some of my tools on UTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TgPlOugubQ // I put it on an old UTube channel that I upped some videos for a cousin of mine that was going thru a time of much confusion.

About your very kind words in your post: "wow; you must know virtually everything about lockpicking. I saw in your sig that you have been at it since 1969!!" // I do KNOW this; I DO NOT Know a LOT, and most probably I DO NOT Know more about locks than I know.... Hence the caveat; Picking since 1969, STILL LEARNING !!!!!

On the video, I posted a few shots with some Home Brew rakes, you may have to PAUSE due to the time of each shot is 2-3 seconds, most of the "sets" have at least one or two in them. For a long long time I was somewhat sure that pretty much ALL Pin Tumbler locks could be opened with a rake, boy was I wrong !!!! I would also encourage you, and everyone else, to develop some of your own tools. BosnianBill has OUTSTANDING videos on that and pretty much MOST lock related subjects.

There is a wealth of information here on LP101, as well a bunch of very talented folks.....
Mail is here, a bunch of Peterson "Specials", gotta go look, keep in touch.....
Image
Picking since 1969, STILL LEARNING !!!!!
DrDave-USA
 
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 12:43
Location: Las Vegas - USA

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby QuantumEntangled » 21 Feb 2016 19:22

gotcha Dr. Dave about the octo and Sandman. I have an octorake but now must have a Sandman too :-)

It's a real treat to knock around ideas with someone so experienced. I'm glad to be part of this community with so many talented folks.

BosnianBill's videos have helped tremendously. Actually after watching one of him working on a Medeco for 17 days and how he first removed the stacks except one and gradually mastered each one before adding the next one--that's where I first got the idea to do the same. You had mentioned that method as well. I did that very thing, albeit not with a Medeco...yet, and it does help to learn progressively.

Anyway thanks for the tips, enjoy your Peterson newsletter and happy opening!
QuantumEntangled
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 3 Feb 2016 20:05

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby Kheops » 23 Feb 2016 18:19

Regarding the Octo-rake and the Sandman rake, I noticed that the handles are considerably larger. How do you guys like these larger handles?
Kheops
 
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Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby QuantumEntangled » 24 Feb 2016 19:01

Kheops,
The handle is bigger than your standard pick but honestly, you just have to get the feel for the tool. I have the octorake and while I am by no means an expert with it, I really have not had a problem with its size. I hold my picks between my thumb and index with the middle sometimes lightly touching the end of the tang right where it meets the handle. The larger size feels solid in my hand. I do not yet have a Sandman but it looks similar.

Try one out. You can get them for like 8 or 9 dollars. I like mine and sometimes wish all picks were big and solid like this one. (I use a lot of Peterson stuff and sometimes with their plastic handled picks it feels like they disappeared in my hand lol. Their rubber handled ones are awesome though.)
QuantumEntangled
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 3 Feb 2016 20:05

Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby norwoodgolf » 26 Feb 2016 18:39

The Sandman is a pretty good rake. It's cool because it's two picks in one since both sides rake.

The Octo, King, and Queen need more of an up and down and rocking motion with very little raking.Once you get the hang of them they are cool to pick with.

I have had a hard time with the Rook and the Knight. I can't even get them into most locks. Not sure if it's the pick or the operator!
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Re: Sparrows Vorax Kit

Postby ghostpicker » 23 Mar 2025 1:24

Sorry for the very late replies 8 years later lol I forgot the email I used this for
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