Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
Forum rules You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.
Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.
If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.
Then, my understanding is I replace the cover, insert the change key, rotate the change key 90 degrees counterclockwise, dial the new combination to the change index, rotate the change key clockwise, remove the change key, and test multiple times (+/- 1 stop) with the door open.
neither..
watch this video, it will also show you where the change index is on your dial ring:
The square hole in the wheels should be at 7 oclock if you are looking at the lock mechanism. this puts the gates at about 1 oclock just to the right of the fence that drops into the gates. As bill said, align the wheels manually, put the cover back on and make sure the square holes are visible through the cover, put the screws back on the cover, now insert change key, turn it, dial new combo to the change index not to the 12 oclock index, and then remove change key and dial the new combo to the 12 oclock opening index mark.
if you done goofed (and don't worry, we all done goofed before)
I followed the instructions as illustrated in the video. However, the dial is stuck on something when I turn the change key to the left.
The other thing I noticed was when I was trying to figure the combination that the lock is currently on (without the change key inserted), the numbers change. What's strange is I am almost certain (but not 100%) the original combination worked when I first remounted the lock. I believe the problem only started when I first tried to change the combination with the change key.
Im curious what I'm doing (I did) wrong.
I don't mind taking the lock apart if that's what is required.
I followed the instructions as illustrated in the video. However, the dial is stuck on something when I turn the change key to the left.
The other thing I noticed was when I was trying to figure the combination that the lock is currently on (without the change key inserted), the numbers change. What's strange is I am almost certain (but not 100%) the original combination worked when I first remounted the lock. I believe the problem only started when I first tried to change the combination with the change key.
Im curious what I'm doing (I did) wrong.
I don't mind taking the lock apart if that's what is required.
is the lock in the open position? Not sure if this is the case for you but make sure the last number of the combination isnt in the forbidden zone of around 90 to 10. It sounds like you may have a wheel that is locked or unlocked and while you insert the key to unlock 2 of the wheels, you're locking up the 3rd one from a past failed change key operation.
remove the change key, take off the back cover and spin the dial 5 times in either direction, does it sequentially pick up all 3 wheels to the point where they are all 3 moving together as you spin the dial? or is one or more of the wheels not also spinning together when you turn the dial?
just guessing here by the way, could be something totally different. the change key turns 90 degrees and gives a good loud click right?
The lock is NOT in the open position - in order to get the square lined up with the opening in the lock cover, the bolt is pushed out to the position where the safe would be locked. If in the open position, the square is at 5 o'clock and can't line up with the dimple and hole in the cover. See http://i.imgur.com/CK4Uu5C.jpg
The last number was not in the "forbidden" zone. Not sure where it is now - no way to tell since the numbers that line up the gates seem to change every time. So far, none of them have been in the forbidden zone.
All three wheels do spin together after spinning the dial for 4-5 times. One thing I noticed (which may be normal) is that the first and middle wheels over spin if I "flip" the dial rather than simply turn it.
NO - the change key does not "click" as was the case when I changed the combination on my other safe. It does engage softly, but definitely no "click".
If you look at picture D, and take an icepick, put it through the change key hole and move all 3 wheels clockwise about 1/2", or until the icepick falls into a hole. That should place the wheels where they need to be to line up with the change key hole. Now put the back cover back on & insert your change key & turn it and you should be ready to dial your new combo to the change key index.
Wondering if one or more of the change key slots are already 'unlocked', allowing the number on that dial to change.
Remove the back cover of the lock. Use your finger to hold the wheel closest to you still while you turn the dial. If the dial can still turn after it would have picked up that wheel, but the wheel itself is not turning, then it is unlocked. If the wheel will not turn, then use the change key to unlock it. Now try turning the dial. If it turns, good. Try holding the next wheel, too. You want all three wheels to be staying still when held.
Now use your change key to lock all of the wheels. Make sure the change key holes line up with the one in the back cover. Install the back cover.
Use the change key to unlock the wheels with the back cover installed. Now set your combination to the change index. Then remove the change key. Test your combination. See if it works, and be sure the numbers do not change again.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
A lightbulb went on after you said lock and unlock fifty times along with me watching what happens when I turn the change key on the outermost wheel.
Two things seemed to be happening. The first was that the wheel closest to the dial (#1?) was in the opposite lock state from the other two wheels. The second was that the outermost wheel was set to 4 (which I now understand is the forbidden zone). I took the wheel pack apart to change the lock state of wheel #1 and opened, rotated, and locked the outermost wheel to take it out of the forbidden zone.
I tested the lock three times with the apparent combination and it seems to work each time.
Now, because I love to learn and can never leave well enough alone, I want to go through the proper sequence of changing the combination (especially since wheel 1 and 2 open on the same number).
As I dialed the now known combination to what I thought was the Change index, I noticed that the square slot on the key is not in the right place. It's only in the right place if I dial using the opening index.
Before I screw things up again with the change key, I wanted to consult with you guys first.
Suspected that at least one wheel was out of phase with the other two. Have run into that twice before, once on an 8088 padlock. Thankfully, the 8088 had the change key hole uncovered when I got it.
Dial so the change key holes line up at the correct position. Look at the number at the change index. That is the number that should be dialed at the opening index to unlock the lock.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
Successfully tested the newly determined combination. Opened, locked, and spun the dial.
Dialed the combination to get the change hole to line up with cover hole.
Turned the key 90 degrees counterclockwise.
Turned the dial left to set the first number of the new combination and encountered the strange click at a specific number (9). Chose the number 24 and aligned that with the change index (noting that 32 was on the opening index). Attempted to turn the dial to the right to set the second number and it wouldn't turn right.
I'm pretty sure the key was in as it should be (with the flag below the cover).
On removing the key, the combination is now different and all the wheels rotate together when turning left. That will change if I rotate the dial right.
Correction: on rotating right, the wheels gates do separate but they all align when I again rotate left.
What did I do wrong? Confirmed I'm not in the forbidden zone. (70)
To really help, as a checklist,of sorts,of lock symptoms to determine the problem (Even when it wasnt a s&g i was dealing with... Just gotta remember the specifics/ differences for lagard, chubb etc)
I know gordon mentioned it but i still think that the wheel is out of sequence from the pack( unlocked)
C locked wrote:I know gordon mentioned it but i still think that the wheel is out of sequence from the pack( unlocked)
Thank you. I'll check the S&G section you referenced.
Because I was able to use the "new" combination, I know that it worked. That said, your thought that it's out of sequence makes sense. However I'm wondering what in the change procedure I used caused it to get out of sequence. The only thing I could think of is that the change key wasn't going all the way in. However, I'm relatively sure that it was properly inserted.
I'm hoping one of the "experts" will tell me what I'm doing wrong (or that the lock is broken).
C locked wrote:I know gordon mentioned it but i still think that the wheel is out of sequence from the pack( unlocked)
Thank you. I'll check the S&G section you referenced.
Because I was able to use the "new" combination, I know that it worked. That said, your thought that it's out of sequence makes sense. However I'm wondering what in the change procedure I used caused it to get out of sequence. The only thing I could think of is that the change key wasn't going all the way in. However, I'm relatively sure that it was properly inserted.
I'm hoping one of the "experts" will tell me what I'm doing wrong (or that the lock is broken).
If you have time, take the wheel pack apart and insert the change key into each one and unlock and lock them one by one in your hand do make sure the wheel sandwich of each wheel is locked. Then put the wheel pack and washers back together and dial the dial to line up each gate and note the number on the dial, then dial it just by looking at the dial to make sure it is correct, and THEN dial it to the change index and insert the key, or you can do the shortcut and align the wheels with the cover open and put them at the change key hole at 7 oclock and put the cover back on. insert key, turn, dial new combo, and lock key and so on.
are all 3 flys on all 3 wheels moving left and right freely?
That S&G troubleshooting manual you were linked to is the bible, it should provide some answers.
I'm at the edge of my seat here. keep us posted! Squelchtone
A question that is yet unanswered is the clicking I heard when I first engaged the change key. When I turned the dial left to set the first number of the combination, the safe consistently yielded a noticeable click when passing over 9 on the dial.
Does this mean anything to you?
C locked,
I previously read the S&G bible as was suggested early on but revisited the Troubleshooting section as you suggested. I can't say that I noticed anything that seems to apply but I appreciate the reminder to refer back to the document.
