how to determine ownership of a safe

[cledry]

Had a call today to open a large gun safe. I didn't go on the call because it didn't feel right. The customer said they had this safe but didn't know the combination. Is it just me or shouldn't an owner of a safe like this know the combination? How would others handle this. Would you assume that if the safe was in somebody's home it must be their safe?

I have no issue opening a safe if the combination stopped working but this is different. This also got me thinking, what if the caller had said their combination wasn't working say 60-25-45 and I went and opened it and determined the combination was 47-19-68. What now?

[billdeserthills]

In my state, as long as I record the drivers license of the person requesting & paying for the service I am considered a burglary tool wielded by the requester of the service

I had the police call me a couple years ago, said I picked open a door for the wrong person. The policeman tried to give me a hard time, but I had followed all the laws and had the info from the criminal's driver's license and I never heard from them again, once he asked if I would ID the lady.

[cledry]

I wasn't specifically talking about covering my ass. I know what the law requires. I have a conscience though, and am busy enough I don't really need to get involved in stuff that feels weird.

[billdeserthills]

Problem is not many people register their safe with the factory. Trying to get a look at the deed to the house is as difficult.
My Dad taught me to make money, when I feel something weird is up I just turn down that job, it has happened over the years.

In fact I wish I had turned down a job I did on Friday. Now they tell me the exit device was wired electrically and since I rekeyed it
I'm told it no longer works. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary and when the key is turned the door locks. Turn the key the other
direction on the door is unlocked. push the bar inside & the door opens, just like when everything works...Seems to be working fine...

[Squelchtone]

would it be enough to check the customers address on their license and see that it matches up to the residential address where the safe is? or is this one of those things where the wife who's husband is out of town calls a locksmith to have hubby's safe opened so she can go through it? her license may in fact have the address of the house where the safe is located, but that doesn't mean she has the right to be going in the safe, right?

interesting topic
Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Think Cledry is more concerned whether the safe is stolen, and now the people want to hire him to open the stolen safe. A stolen safe could be at the same location as the driver's license.

However, can think of reasons for the safe combination to have been forgotten or lost. Have manipulated a couple safes for people who lost the combo. One, the person was known to me personally (family member), with the other, the person was known to a friend who is a safe tech, and they did not want to drill the safe unless necessary. He can open by drilling and scoping, but he says he can't manipulate worth a darn. With the first, they just don't open the safe more than once or twice a year, so forgot the combo. The second safe had a fly that was sticking, so the combo did not work. Cleaned that lock, and it worked fine.

Am not sure what the laws are, but I would trust my gut feeling. You seem to be a person with good judgement. If it does not feel right, then better to pass. If they feel alright, then by all means, comply with the requisite laws and help them.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

would it be enough to check the customers address on their license and see that it matches up to the residential address where the safe is? or is this one of those things where the wife who's husband is out of town calls a locksmith to have hubby's safe opened so she can go through it? her license may in fact have the address of the house where the safe is located, but that doesn't mean she has the right to be going in the safe, right?

interesting topic
Squelchtone

I have actually already done a couple of these jobs and in a community property state, the wife has every right to take a look into hubby's safe
Both times hubby was stealing assets from the wife. It is really insulting when the wife is granted everything in the kitchen and the hubby has
over $100,000 worth of unknown guns hidden away in his gun safe and half of that was supposed to be hers

[Devhad]

One of the legal elements requires that you "knowingly"....... So you would of course be fine there.
Ethically, if the person has the safe at their house it is getting opened either way so I wouldn't lose too much sleep. And if it really doesn't feel right call the police non emergency number and let them know as much info as possible, safe description, serial numbers, name of customer and address. Chances are, if a safe came up missing there is a report about it. And the info you provide could be very helpful. If you get to the house and the safe isn't bolted down, has pry marks, says ATM, looked like it was dragged out of a window with a chain and an F250 or is covered in blood walk away quickly.

Of course if is your safety you are concerned about and it doesn't feel right then absolutely turn down the call.

[cledry]

One of the legal elements requires that you "knowingly"....... So you would of course be fine there.
Ethically, if the person has the safe at their house it is getting opened either way so I wouldn't lose too much sleep. And if it really doesn't feel right call the police non emergency number and let them know as much info as possible, safe description, serial numbers, name of customer and address. Chances are, if a safe came up missing there is a report about it. And the info you provide could be very helpful. If you get to the house and the safe isn't bolted down, has pry marks, says ATM, looked like it was dragged out of a window with a chain and an F250 or is covered in blood walk away quickly.

Of course if is your safety you are concerned about and it doesn't feel right then absolutely turn down the call.

Well I certainly am not going to drive 80 miles to walk away from a job. LOL My time is too valuable.

No, I was more concerned with the fact that this person didn't say it was a dead relative who owned the safe (I get those sometimes), they didn't say they knew the combination and it wasn't working etc. Now I know people do forget combinations, but these are usually safes that they keep documents in and rarely open. People with guns like to use their guns, they like to caress them, to take selfies with them. They don't tend to lock them up and not touch them for months or years.

[billdeserthills]

Not that this will be any help, but I had a guy call me years ago, said he knew where there was a safe full of valuables and that he would split it with me 50-50.
I told him that if I was doing all the work to open the safe and probably have to open the house up too, I wanted 90%. He said my price was too high and likely called
someone else, cause I never heard from him again, which was fine with me.

[Sinifar]

Who owns what and who can get into something is always a touchy subject. I don't mind going to and rekeying a house, I don't ask for any ID - I figure the person living there owns it. Now if we have to get in due to no key, this now changes everything.

Cars were another thing - who carries their paper work with them? They say it is their car - prove it, WORSE make a set of keys with poor ID, no title, no anything. No going to happen...

Safes have always been problematic for me, especially home safes - who actually own the thing? Is it grand pa's? Uncle Louie's? Or the person who lives there? OR did they pull this thing from somebody's house and now it is over here and they claim they own it - especially a Sentry safe.

Back in the day I might do something like this - but no more -- i got screamed at by too many people, I did check the ID - it matched the house, but the safe? It was somebody else's in the house, not theirs - there is no way to determine this from what you are given and simply opening the thing is going to let somebody who does not belong there into it.

Just been burned too many times, I guess I am too trusting --

Sinifar

[dll932]

I once was called to open a house for a guy who said he'd been out of town and lost his key. He wanted me to open it and fit a key to the existing comb and he had a DL with that address. I did as he asked, he paid and I left. The next day his FATHER called our shop and asked why we let his son into the house? No love lost there, I guess, but there was no restraining order (or similar) posted on the door, so how was I to know?

[billdeserthills]

I once was called to open a house for a guy who said he'd been out of town and lost his key. He wanted me to open it and fit a key to the existing comb and he had a DL with that address. I did as he asked, he paid and I left. The next day his FATHER called our shop and asked why we let his son into the house? No love lost there, I guess, but there was no restraining order (or similar) posted on the door, so how was I to know?

I once opened a house for a stupid bratty kid, as soon as the door opened it was evident that he did not belong in there, as the alarm went off & bratty was unable to shut it off.
To make matters worse, every time the alarm would reset, the brat would open the door again, causing the alarm to go off some more. I passed the scottsdale police on my way out and handed them my business card. They went ahead and fixed that brat good. I still got paid, so the story did have a happy ending--Not the sticky kind of happy ending

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Just saw this thread. Going to use my resurrection powers.

Use an affidavit along with a copy of their license. Removes liability from you.

[billdeserthills]

I wasn't specifically talking about covering my ass. I know what the law requires. I have a conscience though, and am busy enough I don't really need to get involved in stuff that feels weird.

In that case I will resurrect the answer I received when I stated basically the same thing