How to know which pin is overset?(to learn for the next try)

[Thanshin]

After some clicks, this lock it stops responding. I stay in a false set, all pins go limp and I don't know what to do or how to know where I made the mistake.


I'm stuck with one lock. I have a perfect pry-bar fit, good keyway access and it's clean and not too old.

I believe it's a low security, high quality, tesa-abloy lock and what's stopping me is that all key and driver pins might be serrated/spooled. I don't think it has any extra security. It's probably one of these

My problem with this one is that I:
- clearly feel the binding pins
- clearly feel the clicks
- believe I feel a spool that I manage to set by releasing tension while pushing a bit harder on it.
...
And after some clicks, it all goes limp and I have to release tension and start again.

If that's a symptom of having overset a pin, is there any way to know which pin I overset to be more careful next time?


Maybe I should do a "fail" version of LockpickLawyer's videos, saying what I feel and do but, instead of opening the lock, I just reach the fail state a few times.

[Squelchtone]

If you look at this TOOOL animation of pins setting, each time a pin is set the key pin is then free to go up and down and you will not feel any spring resistance. If you overset a pin (the red key pin), it means the key pin went above the shear line and is stuck up there now because of the rotation on the plug by the tension wrench.



Go under each pin with your pick and see which ones are set and are free to move and move up and down without feeling any spring pressure, and the stack where the pin is missing, is usually the one that is too high up to feel with the pick, until you lift the pick higher and feel a hard pin that does not move, and there is no spring compression before you feel the pin, just a sudden pin that you cannot move, that is the overset pin.

If you are practicing with the lock in your hand, and you think you have set some driver pins already and are holding the tension wrench so they dont reset, you can shake the lock and hear the key pins (the red ones from the animation) inside the lock moving back and fourth.

[Thanshin]

Go under each pin with your pick and see which ones are set and are free to move and move up and down without feeling any spring pressure, and the stack where the pin is missing, is usually the one that is too high up to feel with the pick, until you lift the pick higher and feel a hard pin that does not move, and there is no spring compression before you feel the pin, just a sudden pin that you cannot move, that is the overset pin.

Doesn't that only work if the bible is on top? If you reverse the orientation of the lock to European position, the key pins rest on the drivers in much the same way whether they are overset or correctly set.

Or am I not interpreting this right.

[Squelchtone]

Go under each pin with your pick and see which ones are set and are free to move and move up and down without feeling any spring pressure, and the stack where the pin is missing, is usually the one that is too high up to feel with the pick, until you lift the pick higher and feel a hard pin that does not move, and there is no spring compression before you feel the pin, just a sudden pin that you cannot move, that is the overset pin.

Doesn't that only work if the bible is on top? If you reverse the orientation of the lock to European position, the key pins rest on the drivers in much the same way whether they are overset or correctly set.

Or am I not interpreting this right.

yes you are correct, it would be more difficult to tell if the lock is mounted with the bible facing down, but if you are practicing in your hand then you can hold it any way you like, or if you are holding with the bible down, then shake the lock and hear the key pins sliding around freely. I'm not sure I have a good pro tip for you to figure out a set or overset pin if the lock bible is facing down like in Europe.

Squelchtone

[Thanshin]

yes you are correct, it would be more difficult to tell if the lock is mounted with the bible facing down,

I think what I'll do is keep trying to learn the feeling holding it in the European position and, once I'm blocked again, try to guess which one is overset and verify it by turning the lock upside down.

Kind of like covering a cut-out lock and lifting the cover only after abandoning hope.