New Safe - Strange Locking Mechanism

[GWiens2001]

Pics, Squelchtone. Pics!

Gordon

[djed]

Squelchtone,

Mustache shaped flat brass plate? Can't say that I've seen that laying around in one of my ziplocks.

When you get the lock, dial, dial ring, please take a look at the spindle and see if you think it has a slight bend to it (or is not pressed in straight). I was seeing a 1/8" "kilter" in the spindle when I rotated the dial while the lock, dial ring, and dial were reassembled.

Also feel free to tell me that I used too much/little lubricant.

David

[Squelchtone]

Squelchtone,

Mustache shaped flat brass plate?

it was used way back in the day before they invented the change index method. it was a lever arm that the change key would tilt up which kept the lever arm and fence floating over the wheel pack so it wouldnt fall into the gates being aligned at 12 oclock as one changed the combination. The change key while inserted into the lock would still go into the wheels and unlock them, and the flag on the change key would flip the mustache lever as well.

[billdeserthills]

I just want to say I think this whole thing has been allowed to go on for far too long already. If I had this trouble in the field, I would
have just reset each wheel to a different setting, manually & re-assembled the lock. Then I would have dialed it to figure out what
the wheels were actually set to and I would have tried the combo 6 to 10 times. If it even farted once, I would have tossed the whole
thing in the trash and simply replaced the old lock with a new S&G 6730. If it worked the 6-10 times I'd have charged for a combo reset
(manual) and been off to my next job, hoping I didn't get called back to change the thing again, anytime soon.

Then again, I don't have the time on my schedule to continually doubt everything around me. Most things work the way they are supposed
to, some things work the way they do and the rest I toss in the trash and never look back upon, again.

Wishing the OP the best on this headache

[Squelchtone]

all valid points bill, but in the hobby arena, we have all the time in the world to be amateur detectives as well enjoy our hobby, learn how to troubleshoot a stubborn safe lock, all at a leisurely pace =)

and yes, if I was a smith and this was a customer, there would have been a new lock on that container on the 1st day. no need to risk a future lock out on a funky old lock.

Squelchtone

[femurat]

Squelchtone,

Mustache shaped flat brass plate?

it was used way back in the day before they invented the change index method. it was a lever arm that the change key would tilt up which kept the lever arm and fence floating over the wheel pack so it wouldnt fall into the gates being aligned at 12 oclock as one changed the combination. The change key while inserted into the lock would still go into the wheels and unlock them, and the flag on the change key would flip the mustache lever as well.

I'm happy when I learn something new. Thanks for the picture and explanation. Even if, summarizing what billdeserthills said, this thread is "useless" from a locksmith point of view, at least was useful to teach me about this old feature.

Cheers

[GWiens2001]

I learned something new as well. Had to blow up that pic to see that the lever actually has a hole in it that the change key fits into. Pretty interesting.

Thanks for the education.

Gordon

[Raymond]

Here is a photo of a very similar lock showing the lever lifting plate. The change key inserted is leaning because the back cover is not present to hold it straight. When the key is turned, the lever is lifted clear of the drive wheel.

[Squelchtone]

Here is a photo of a very similar lock showing the lever lifting plate. The change key inserted is leaning because the back cover is not present to hold it straight. When the key is turned, the lever is lifted clear of the drive wheel.

Raymond wins the prize, I think he's right, and as I have said before, I learn something new here every day!

averagejoe was quick to notice the change key hole location in the 3rd video was not in the normal location on the back cover!

I have to agree that the plate is missing and the change combination would have gone smoothly for the djed if the plate was there keeping the fence from falling into the gates.

Here's a page from a 1989 S&G catalog showing that part, along with the option for a 0 change back cover.



That pic is from this file http://wheelpost.com/Documents_PDF/SG_parts_catalog_1989.pdf hosted at the http://wheelpost.com which is something Brian Costley, retired Sargent & Greenleaf Training manager maintains.

I wonder how/when in the life of that safe that plate was removed, and if it was done by a safeman/locksmith so customers wouldn't get themselves in trouble trying to change their own combination, or what...

Thank you for that knowledge Raymond!

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

Lockmasters doesn't have that part and S&G tech support said that plate is an obsolete part and they don't have it either, but would ask around the shop for me and call me back.

Squelchtone

[djed]

My sincere thanks to all for the help. I just ordered a few things from MBAUSA including a replacement lock, dial ring, and dial package.

I'll report back once I get it installed.

[averagejoe]

My sincere thanks to all for the help. I just ordered a few things from MBAUSA including a replacement lock, dial ring, and dial package.

I'll report back once I get it installed.

Hmm, there is a seller that has/had 6730 locks on ebay for $28 a piece. You could have used your old dial and saved a few bucks.

And I knew I had seen one of those odd plates before so I checked all my S&G locks. No dice. I went into my Diebold box and lo and behold... An S&G made Diebold lock

[djed]

I received my lock, dial ring, dial package from MBAUSA today.

Hopefully three quick questions: (1) what do you use to cut the spindle - a hack saw? (2) how much excess spindle length should I leave above the snug drive cam? (3) do you use threadlock (blue) for the dial ring screws?

Thank you.

David

[GWiens2001]

I received my lock, dial ring, dial package from MBAUSA today.

Hopefully three quick questions: (1) what do you use to cut the spindle - a hack saw? (2) how much excess spindle length should I leave above the snug drive cam? (3) do you use threadlock (blue) for the dial ring screws?

Yes, a hack saw works well. Look at this thread and find where it shows how to cut the spindle, and how to measure the spindle for proper length. And be sure to run the drive cam down on the spindle before cutting!

Yes, blue thread locker is probably best for both the lock screws and the dial ring screws. At least that would be my choice.

Gordon

[djed]

Gordon,

Thank you. I should have searched the forum first - especially since you took so much time to prepare that thread.

I am still not certain about the spindle clearance above or below the drive cam. (Flush, recessed, or slightly above)?

David