manipulating safe

by **Wolf2486** » 10 Nov 2004 22:06

I would very much like to get into safe manipulation, however, I am finding it a pain to find any good resources on how to do this. I won't make something up such as "I forgot my safe combination" or what not, I honestly want to get into the hobby of safe manipulation. Hopefully this post doesn't get locked, but can anyone point me to a good book/video for a reasonable price that teaches safe manipulation. Thank you.

by **Varjeal** » 10 Nov 2004 23:00

Getting yourself a subscription to the S&VT magazine will go a long ways.

by **32768** » 10 Nov 2004 23:24

I've been doing a similar search. Here's what I've found so far:

HowStuffWorks.com has a small section on manipulation. It's not really enough to show you what to do, but you get the general idea for how to graph a lock. It's free.

Techniques of Safecracking is available on powells and most other decent bookstores. It gets mixed reviews and seems to spend a lot of space on things other than manipulation.

Locks, Safes, and Security from Amazon or Security.org seems to be _the_ reference. Unfortunately, it's $200 for the book and more for the cd-roms. Everyone says it's well worth it, and I'm planning on getting it once I've amassed a couple months worth of ramen noodles. (To tide myself over until I can afford food again)

There's also the national locksmith's guide to manipulation. It's $45 through my FB catalog. I'm getting this in my next order, and I could post a review in a couple months if the moderators feel it's appropriate.

Matt Blaze mentions these two books on his site. http://www.crypto.com/hobbs.html I don't know much about them except that the text of the second is included on one of the LSS+ cdroms and, amazingly, doesn't seem to be online yet.

A.C Hobbs (Charles Tomlinson, ed.), Locks and Safes: The Construction of Locks. Published by Virtue & Co., London, 1853 (revised 1868).

Clyde Lentz and Bill Kenton, The Art of Manipulation. (Privately published) 1953.
I found copies of this online, but it's a rare book and priced accordingly (the authors urged their readers to destroy it when they were done).

Finally, although this deals only tangentally with safecracking, there's Charles M. Courtney's book Unlocking Adventure. I tried to interlibrary loan this one (it's also out of print), but to no avail. He pioneered the art of underwater safecracking. This site is a decent place to start if you haven't heard of him. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janestorey/gold.htm

I hope that helps! If anyone knows of other resources, please add them to this thread. I'd like to hear about them. My bibliomania is limited only by my lack of money.

by **bushd** » 11 Nov 2004 1:03

Online Websites and Articles:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/safecrac ... /printable
http://home.howstuffworks.com/inside-lock.htm/printable
http://www.totse.com/
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hill ... _lock.html
http://zatorski.com:8181/Combo2.doc [hzatorsk made]

Be warned about totse.com though. It doesn't have to be correct information to be on there and their language isn't the best. Other members don't care for that site, or so I have read.

My list of books on manipulation that I have compiled:

(The National Locksmith's) Guide to Manipulation [http://www.sievekingprodco.com/index.html]
Techniques of Safecracking by Yeager (Only 2 pages deal with actual manipulation from people who have purchased it)
HPC Safe and Vault Manual
TNL Presents: Bread & Butter by Dave McOmie
TNL Presents: The 15 Minute Safe Opening by Jake Jakubuwski (On TNL site or CD version)
David McOmie on Safe Locks by David McOmie
The Art of Manipulation
Opening Combination Padlocks: No Tools, No Problem by Carl Black (Amazon so far)
The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing by Bill Phillips (Has portion to Manipulation from what I understand- Amazon)
LSS(+) by Marc Weber Tobias - amazon.com or security.org (USD$200+ usually)

From what I have heard the two best would be the HPC Safe and Vault Manual and of course LSS(+). This list isn't complete by far I presume simply because anyone can write a book and publish it.

If this shouldn't be posted let me know; however, it was obtained without any kind of special access or knowledge.

by **32768** » 11 Nov 2004 1:20

Thanks! That's a great list.
The Bill Philips book doesn't have anything useful for learning manipulation, at least that I can recall. I think it maybe says that it's possible but the emphasis is much more on what sort of safes you should stock in your store and what's good for different applications.

by **PickPick** » 11 Nov 2004 3:26

bushd wrote:If this shouldn't be posted let me know; however, it was obtained without any kind of special access or knowledge.

You mean you obtained the books or you only obtained the links to the books?

by **sojal** » 11 Nov 2004 3:46

Techniques of safecracking: Don't get it. It will teach you as much on manipulation (and general safe opening methods) as movies such as "The Italian Job" (which incidentaly made me get into safe manipulation

), "James Bond", and other such beauties. Nothing in here you can't find on the internet for free (HowStuffWorks for example).

The Art of Manipulation: Go get it!! This is the book I started with. It is good enough on it's own in my opinion, and will lead you to countless hours of manipulation. However, I strongly suggest also getting LSS below.

Locks, Safes and Security: Yes, yes, and yes. (The answers to the questions: Is it worth $220? Does it have a lot on safe manipulation? Can I go to bed reading it every night?). On the safe lock manipulation section, I would say it is complimentary to The Art of Manipulation. When I read it I had the feeling he expected you to have read The Art of Manipulation and is just adding more info/techniques.

I have only looked at the 'standard' three: S&G, Lagard and Ilco Group 2 locks. Many other locks exist and are manipulated differently, I haven't tried those. Yet.

Hope it helps, and I hope we get a chance to share experiences, tips and tricks

By the way, go look at the chart in Howstuffworks.com, I can promise you will _NEVER_ see anything like it on a group 2, but enough said... :wink:

by **Wolf2486** » 11 Nov 2004 10:41

Thanks. It looks like "The Art of Manipulation" is the book I will be going for. However, I am having trouble finding any copies for sale. 32768, you said that it was rare but you've found some copies online. May I ask where you found them. Thank You.

by **sojal** » 11 Nov 2004 11:52

Wolf2486, the easiest way to get The Art of Manipulation (TAoM) is by LSS+ (The CD-Rom versions include the book TAoM).

ALso, an alternative to bying the WHOLE LSS book, you can also buy separate chapters:

From security.org:

CHAPTERS 33-34-35-36-37 SAFES, LOCKS, FORCED AND COVERT ENTRY OF SAFES AND VAULTS $50.00

Those chapters cover the safe manipulation.

I used to know where to get TAoM stand-alone somewhere online, but now can't find it again

by **Wolf2486** » 11 Nov 2004 15:51

I've found a couple of sites that talk about The Art of Manipulation, however none of these sites had the book for sale. Unfortunately, I do not want to spend $200 on LSS, so any information anyone has on where to buy The Art of Manipulation book would be very helpful, thank you.

by **32768** » 11 Nov 2004 18:01

I saw it some time ago on either alibris or abebooks. Both sites index used and rare bookstores. I don't remember the exact price, but it was more than LSS.

It was privately printed, so probably relatively few were produced. I doubt many have survived the years and those that are out there are likely in the hands of people with no plans to sell them. If you just want the information, get the electronic version.

security.org says that:
"A PREVIEW version of LSS+ is available to locksmiths, security professionals, and government agencies."

So if you fit into one of those categories, you could read it for free until the preview expires. Otherwise, you can just buy the chapters, as sojal suggested.

by **32768** » 11 Nov 2004 19:05

Wolf2486, Your location says PA, so this may not be completely impractical.
I couldn't find a copy of the art of manipulation through the access pa interlibrary search, and none of the philadelphia university libraries seem to have a copy either.

However, the library of congress has a copy in their rare book room:

LC Control Number: 56045768
Type of Material: Text (Book, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
Brief Description: Lentz, Clyde, 1920- [from old catalog]
The art of manipulation,
[Independence? Mo.], c1955.

CALL NUMBER: TS520 .L4
Copy 1
-- Request in: Rare Book/Special Collections Reading Room (Jefferson LJ239)
-- Status: Not Charged

So are there any forum members in DC who would like to spend an afternoon at the library with a digital camera? :wink:

by **32768** » 11 Nov 2004 20:20

[for some reason, I can't edit my last post to add this. oh well- postCount++]

HPC lists the art of manipulation:
http://www.hpcworld.com/lockhpc/b_toam2.htm

And here's a site with it listed for $102...
http://catalog.wloc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrec ... C=11&SID=1

www.southernlock.com lists it for $205.50. It pays to shop around, huh? Due to "the highly confidential nature of this work" (which you can also get from the library) they restrict sale to "established safe men". I guess the ladies are out of luck.

looks like we're all better off buying LSS+

by **WhiteHat** » 11 Nov 2004 20:27

anyone noticed the similar book covers? - I wonder if that was intentional..

images from HPC and amazon respectively

by **Wolf2486** » 11 Nov 2004 20:57

Wow, those prices are insane. I understand them completely though, the books are rare and took a lot of time to make. Unfortunately, I won't spend $100 either. So looks like I'm out of luck. I did find (for a cheap price) a book called "techniques of Safe & Vault manipulation" can anyone here tell me if it is any good. I also want to thank all of you for your information it's has been quite helpful.

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