Can't pick 'real' locks

[kutkloon7]

Hello there! I am new to lockpicking. I recently bought a transparant practice lock and a set with picks and tension wrenches.

The practice lock has been really, really easy to open, even when I don't use any visual feedback from watching the pins. There are seven pins, but the lock seems to be dependent on only two adjacent pins. Furthermore, the keyhole is really nice and big and has straight edges with nice right angles: I can place my tension wrench and my pick each on a seperate corner. There's enough room for my pick to easily fit in and I can pivot it nicely without touching the tension wrench. Also, the 'hot' pins are clearly harder to move and give a nice feedback on the tension wrench when set. Also, it is practically impossible to overset pins.

Now, when I try to use a lock from a chain lock that I've actually used for a while, everything is different. The keyhole is curved (comparison here), I have no space to move my picks next to the tension wrench without (I think) oversetting the first pin, and I have no idea what I'm doing as I can barely feel any feedback on the tension wrench. When I don't have the tension wrench in, I have some space to feel the pins and actually count them, but with the tension wrench in I have very little space and control over the pins, and my pick tends to get stuck.

How did your first 'real' locks go? Any thoughts, help or tips?

[Jacob Morgan]

The key way on the lock you are working on looks a little difficult for someone starting out, and especially if you don't have picks and wrenches that work well in tight spaces.

Suggest getting a pin tumbler lock with a more conventional key way that you can take apart and load with just two pins, and when you get the hang of it add one more pin and so on until you can open a lock with five pins. Not sure what country you are from, if it is from North America then I'd suggest a a mortise cylinder lock with a "normal" (SC1, KW1, etc.) key way--should set you back less than $15 even if you have to buy it new. Buy or scavenge a plug follower and some tweezers to disassemble and reassemble it.

[jbrint]

There are some good post on http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=61895&p=456507&hilit=lock+progression#p456473 about this very topic. I suggest start with this one and watch the associated video.

You can open that lock if you spend enough time on it. In my opinion you should get some other locks like a master #3 or a couple of basic Kwikset's from Home Depot or Lowes. These are good locks to cut your teeth on and then you can take a few stabs at the one you have until you get the hang of it.

[WestCoastPicks]

I started on padlocks from home depot and dollar stores with a southord spx-14.

Even though you can now pick it without looking, when you first started you undoubtedly couldn't. After you got the feel you could stop looking. How easy you make the practice lock sound now, is probably not how you saw it when you first started picking it. You get used to the way any single lock picks. The longer you pick on a lock, the quicker you can open it. (in most cases).

It's the main reason I don't like the idea of practicing on those clear locks. When you move up to the next lock (cause all locks are different) you can't see what you're doing, you don't know this lock, and you haven't developed the skills to know how to progress. (not talking about you, just people in general)

[kutkloon7]

Thanks for the replies! I'm from Europe (the Netherlands to be exact), so there's no Home Depot here. The most comparable thing we have is probably the gamma (they also have locks). Could it be that European locks are more difficult in general? The lock I tried is a cheap one, and is pretty impossible for me to pick. Also there seems to be way less interest in lockpicking here (from what I've seen so far).

The key way on the lock you are working on looks a little difficult for someone starting out, and especially if you don't have picks and wrenches that work well in tight spaces.

Suggest getting a pin tumbler lock with a more conventional key way that you can take apart and load with just two pins, and when you get the hang of it add one more pin and so on until you can open a lock with five pins. Not sure what country you are from, if it is from North America then I'd suggest a a mortise cylinder lock with a "normal" (SC1, KW1, etc.) key way--should set you back less than $15 even if you have to buy it new. Buy or scavenge a plug follower and some tweezers to disassemble and reassemble it.

I guess I got a little excited by how easy it was to pick the practice lock. This is just a regular lock, meant to lock your bike (must have cost about 20 euros, maybe, but that includes a good chain). I am not familiar with disassembling and reassembling locks, but it looks interesting. How can you tell which ones you can disassemble?

There are some good post on http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=61895&p=456507&hilit=lock+progression#p456473 about this very topic. I suggest start with this one and watch the associated video.

You can open that lock if you spend enough time on it. In my opinion you should get some other locks like a master #3 or a couple of basic Kwikset's from Home Depot or Lowes. These are good locks to cut your teeth on and then you can take a few stabs at the one you have until you get the hang of it.

Watching it now, thanks

I started on padlocks from home depot and dollar stores with a southord spx-14.

Even though you can now pick it without looking, when you first started you undoubtedly couldn't. After you got the feel you could stop looking. How easy you make the practice lock sound now, is probably not how you saw it when you first started picking it. You get used to the way any single lock picks. The longer you pick on a lock, the quicker you can open it. (in most cases).

It's the main reason I don't like the idea of practicing on those clear locks. When you move up to the next lock (cause all locks are different) you can't see what you're doing, you don't know this lock, and you haven't developed the skills to know how to progress. (not talking about you, just people in general)

Yes, this was why I was a little reluctant to buy such a practice lock as well. To be honest, I have never heard of disassembling locks, that might be a far better way. Again, the practice lock is really easy (it makes me wonder if it is a production fault, really, because all the pins except for two are already aligned). It never took me more than a minute to pick, and I can even pick it without using the tension wrench at all, because the two pins that matter are adjacent.

[tpark]

Many of the European locks are more difficult than the ones in Canada/US. When a lock is out for a while, the internal components may become corroded, and that makes it more difficult to pick the lock. Lubrication of the lock will make it easier to open, with or without the key. Although not rekeyable, the Master no. 3 lock is a pretty good practice lock - only 4 pins, no security pins (at least the ones they sell here), easy keyway, and this lock gives good feedback when a pin is set. For conventional locks, the Schlage clone locks made by GMS are good. The "F" keyway Key in knob cylinders are good since the keyway is very open. The binding order tends to be regular (i.e. 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 6-5-4-3-2-1) but these locks are easy to rekey/repin. If you're really into this, the practice locks with the threaded plugs so the pins/drivers/springs can be loaded from the top seem like a good idea, but I can't comment on them because I have never played with them.

For European locks I have been using the thin Peterson picks. Southord makes a kit for picking european locks, and these work OK for many keyways.

With practice and persistence it will become easier to pick locks.

Many locks have spools or serrated drivers in them - this can make it more challenging to open a lock. I don't think I've encountered a Euro lock that doesn't have security pins in it.

[kutkloon7]

Thanks for the advice!

Many locks have spools or serrated drivers in them - this can make it more challenging to open a lock. I don't think I've encountered a Euro lock that doesn't have security pins in it.

Hm, that sucks. Maybe this is a reason why lockpicking is less popular in Europe? It seems way harder to get started, since I haven't heard of any good locks for a starter to practice on.

[GuB]

Most of the cheap euro cylinders don't have security pins.
I event have one that in addition to having no security have so loose tolerances that every pin set feel like a false set. It is not that easy to SPP but it can be raked in seconds. They can be found in big box stores for about 5 euros and are usually unbranded.

[LocksportSouth]

FWIW, I have a a bunch of those transparent plastic practice locks and they are all equally terrible - popping open with really no hassle at all. Even the Euro cutaway I have is a doddle compared with the practice-but-not-cutaway locks that I got from LearnLockPicking.

There's a long gap between those kind of practice locks and "real" locks, IMO. That said, there are definitely easier locks to practice on out there. I'm a total noob, but I can pop open Master No.3 padlocks with relative ease.

For European locks, there's a couple of things to bear in mind. First, most European locks have quite thin/narrow keyways compared with US locks - enough that most manufacturers make special "slimline" sets made for European locks, such as Southord's C2010, Peterson's Euro slenders and the Southord Max "B" series of picks - so make sure you're working with a set of slimline Euro style picks rather than US style ones.

The next thing to note is that a lot of European countries, especially Scandinavian countries seem to have extremely high-security locks on their doors as a default. In the US and over here in the UK we tend to go with the lowest bidder as a matter of course, but I've heard of European door locks filled to the brim with security pins (really fancy ones) and even sidebars and all that kind of thing. Make sure that you're not working on anything too difficult - even a random no-name cylinder might be filled with Security pins and in my experience even cheap Abus padlocks tend to have them too. As I say, the Master No.3 and No.5 are good places to start, followed maybe by a 5 or 6 pin Euro which you KNOW has no security pins, then maybe a Master 140 which does have one or two security pins.

Good luck and happy picking!

[TheDave5150]

I agree with many of the others. I Too am brand new to picking... probably got the same popular, if super cheap (already broke the L rake after less than a week) lockpick set with ridiculously easy transparent lock.... once I mastered that I just went to the convenience store and grabbed some cheap masterlocks.... those are the best for learning.... even though you learn quickly what junk most masterlocks are for actual security, lol.

[Latestplague[]]

Heres my 2 cents. I agree on getting a master lock #1 or #3. They are a good starting point. 2nd get a dead bolt or similar if its possible in your area. if you can take it apart see how it works. Pick it then take it apart again swap all the pins and pick some more. Now some may not agree but I would recommend using top of the key way tension (on the padlocks). The wrenches are simple to make on your own, you may have to read some tutorials or watch a video to get started. The reason is that using bottom of the key way is putting your pick and wrench all on top of one another. When you are new to picking this is frustrating because everything is jamming up you can't focus on each pin and you end up rocking the pick all over. I know that's how I was in the beginning. next focus on the basics -what is a binding pin-why and how does it work- what does a set pin feel like- when you set pins pay attention to how it feels but also any rotation of the plug. and remember the dumbest question is the good one that you didn't ask. Theres guys on here that have forgotten more about locks and picking than some of us will ever learn, and from what I have seen most are happy to help.
Also read, read, and read some more. watch as many videos you can find of people who know what they are doing. Bosnianbills videos on youtube are great and there are others that are just as knowledgeable, watch all you can stand. good luck.