How much to invest as a beginner...?

[thephat13isback]

Hi all, I'm new to picking (obviously). I bought a small pick set for $25 (looking back, probably wasn't worth it but it's been a couple years) and an assorted set of cutaways with replacement pins/springs and a couple other do-dads for about $60 (was it worth it? no idea). Since I'm living on my own (I have minimum-wage jobs and live with my girlfriend, so if I might as well be "living" for two ) I'm trying to do extensive research, but the best way to choose is through experience. I'm the type of person who WANTS to invest as much as I can afford into something; however, that doesn't always lead to ideal results.

In your opinion, is this a hobby/lifestyle to start investing into higher-end stuff right away? Or is that even necessary? Should I buy the $8 tweezers or the $30 tweezers with a top-loader for pins, or can I make one with a small rod of metal and some adhesive? Should I get a large key gauge or a simpler one? What experience do you have with this spending "problem?"

You guys seem awesome, and this is something I really want to do. I know your advice won't lead me astray! (also, feel free to answer those specific questions about the tweezers and key gauge )

I'll be searching around the forum, but if there is anyone who doesn't mind being bothered incessantly about products/advice I'd be glad to chat with you.

-phat

[MBI]

I'd say if you need a tool for a job, then buy one. If you're buying one because someday, maybe, because some situation may arise that might arise where you could need that tool, then maybe you should consider waiting on that purchase.

For lockpicking all you really need is two or three picks (or even just one) and a small number of really good tension wrenches, most of which you can make yourself for free. I'd also suggest getting a couple of tension wrenches similar to Peterson Prybars, which are now available from several manufacturers. For picks, in my opinion what you need is a small number of hook picks and some fine-grit wet/dry sandpaper. I found that 90% of the time I used a short hook, which is the most common hook pick. Sometimes I'd need something with a steeper curve, or a longer hook with bit more "reach" in which case I kept a couple different hooks on hand.

I also kept a beefy hook made of slightly thicker steel, like .025" to .032". I only keep one fat pick on hand still because as a locksmith sometimes in the field you run across grimy locks that require a heavy hand and I don't want to sacrifice my polished picks when that happens, or you might need to sacrifice a pick in some way when using it as a tool when fixing things and I don't want to sacrifice one of my good picks.

Most pickers when they get started are "heavy handed" and tend to bend their tools. Once you get past this stage and you develop a more delicate touch with your picks, take that wet/dry sandpaper and use it to polish and smooth your picks. That way they won't grind against the lock warding when you pick and give false feedback. There are many tutorials on polishing your picks on the forum, just look around. If your pick is well polished you can maneuver it easier in the keyway and you can feel what's going on a lot better.

You can get pin tweezers, plug followers, pin mats, pin kits, etc if you plan on cleaning, gutting, restoring, repinning your locks, but you don't really need that stuff at the beginning.

Having the most or the best tools doesn't make you the best picker. Lots and lots of practice is what does that.

[Joshua904]

I'd choose a high quality set (pocket sized) and just custom make stuff as situations require, over a huge cheap set and little toys I could do without... Even if it's fun to have.
Stuff like warded key sets, jiggler sets, or even tubular lock picking sets aren't really required, even if they make life easier. I'd save that money and probably look on eBay for lock lots and hopefully hit it lucky with a few good ones, and cheap/easy ones for slump busters.

[jbrint]

If money is tough, when you are out and about and find materials that could make good picks or tension wrenches, scoop it up and make something. There are quite a few threads on here making picks from almost everything. Then you alway have what you need and you learn a new skill aside from picking.

"Necessity is the mother of invention"

[WestCoastPicks]

To me this is a question of how much of the work are you willing to do yourself, and how much are you willing to put up with.
Much like buying a car vrs a bicycle, they will both transport you to places, but one is much nicer in every aspect and costs hundreds of times more.

If you are willing to do the work yourself, a trip to the auto wrecker for some wiper blades and to home depot for a few files would be the low cost method, with heating, bending, filing, sanding and polishing you can have some nice picks and tension wrenches. You can use dollar store tweezers or do what I did, find a long pair in a first aid kit. Plug followers can be literally anything cylindrical the right size, a friend of mine used a pepperoni stick once. Bump keys made from old keys that don't go to locks you own anymore. Or do what I do, every time I buy a new lock with a keyway I don't have, one of the keys is made in to a bump key. You can use corrugated cardboard for a pinning tray (just peel off one of the top paper layers to expose the corrugation), you can spray it with paint or nail polish to make it last longer than a few uses. Heat shrink tube, wound wire or cord, plastidip, wood or even fish tank air hose for handles.

If you are resourceful, ask around, keep your eyes open and buy a few low cost items, you should be able to do it for almost free. Defiantly under the $25 you spend on the picks you bought.

That being said, if you find yourself with money to spend, you have to make the personal decision; Price(Goso), quality(Peterson), or in the middle somewhere (Southord). But honestly, there isn't much in the way of pin tumbler/dimple locks that you can't easily make with very little tools and money. Get the brand name higher price stuff later in life when you have more money. For now if you buy them get name branded in the mid range somewhere (southord, Mad Bob, Sparrows) that way you're sure your money is going to something that will work and last.

Hope this helps.
-wcp

[thephat13isback]

Thanks for your replies I had made a purchase and was waiting to do somewhat of a "review" before I came back on here; trial and error sort of thing.

I bought a deadbolt (easier to pick than I had thought), dry-lube, WD-40, a vise, cylinder plug follower set (and some other follower tool that I thought would be a waste of money but proved to be helpful; not necessary but it's just one of those things). I also bought shims just to get familiar with them and a couple other items. Total purchase with tax was like $140 that I don't regret, mostly because I wanted to get familiar with standardized tools. However, having experienced an ACTUAL first-time purchase like this, a lot of what you said was brought into clarity.

Plug follower sets and shims could be anything and I don't think they need to be bought; I saw videos using security strips in DVDs as shims and anything can be a plug follower as long as it fits (as a couple of you said; pepperoni, for instance ). I didn't have to buy new picking tools, but making them sounds fascinating anyway and is a direction I would like to go. The DIY pinning tray idea is also great and I'm definitely going to do it (I keep dropping the bastards on the floor). So at this point my money will go to buying locks, pins, springs (broke a few already), and blank keys until I need to DIY something.

Do you guys use standard file sets for re-keying or is there a trick to that too??

[GWiens2001]

Be sure you do not mix wet lube and dry lube. If you use WD-40, don't use graphite. If you use graphite, don't use WD-40. Mix wet lube and dry lube, and you have mud.

Gordon

[Jacob Morgan]

Do you guys use standard file sets for re-keying or is there a trick to that too??

Can you clarify that last question? Are you asking about modifying keys or pins with hand files?

[WestCoastPicks]

Thanks for your replies I had made a purchase and was waiting to do somewhat of a "review" before I came back on here; trial and error sort of thing.

I bought a deadbolt (easier to pick than I had thought), dry-lube, WD-40, a vise, cylinder plug follower set (and some other follower tool that I thought would be a waste of money but proved to be helpful; not necessary but it's just one of those things). I also bought shims just to get familiar with them and a couple other items. Total purchase with tax was like $140 that I don't regret, mostly because I wanted to get familiar with standardized tools. However, having experienced an ACTUAL first-time purchase like this, a lot of what you said was brought into clarity.

Plug follower sets and shims could be anything and I don't think they need to be bought; I saw videos using security strips in DVDs as shims and anything can be a plug follower as long as it fits (as a couple of you said; pepperoni, for instance ). I didn't have to buy new picking tools, but making them sounds fascinating anyway and is a direction I would like to go. The DIY pinning tray idea is also great and I'm definitely going to do it (I keep dropping the bastards on the floor). So at this point my money will go to buying locks, pins, springs (broke a few already), and blank keys until I need to DIY something.

Do you guys use standard file sets for re-keying or is there a trick to that too??

If you're talking about a file for hand making keys, yes standard files work. Just make sure it's the right size. Some people like chainsaw files cause they are the right size and usually well made.

If you're talking about pinning kits. There are universal kits that are fine, but if you want to be sure you'll need a specific pinning kit. Tbh you can almost always use a universal kit.

[thephat13isback]

I had seen a couple videos insisting to clean with WD-40, dry (maybe with an air duster), and apply wet lube. Have you had any experience with that? I almost bought graphite and teflon to see which I liked, but I just went with teflon. I heard a lot of good things about the 3-in-1 but I only have a couple locks to play with and the cutaways, so I'll be trying one lube at a time. I could only imagine the result of graphite and WD-40

I was referring to modifying blank keys. Do people usually modify pins?

What would be considered the "right size?" I was recommended a #4 Swiss cut round file. Looking at chainsaw files they're really similar though. I was also thinking about a half-round file for comfort, but it seems like it wouldn't last as long. Also, is there a universal pinning kit that's "standard?" I looked at ebay, amazon, and a few locksmith sites, and I don't mind putting in a few bucks, I just don't want to blindly invest into something sub-par. A few people said they collect old locks and take pins from those; they either have a lot more patience or time than I do

Thanks again for your responses. It's good to see that this site tends to its beginners, intermediates, and advanced.

[GWiens2001]

Cleaning with WD-40, blow it out, then using wet lube is along the lines of what I do.

Yes, it is better to modify the key blank than the pins in most cases.

Gordon

[PowerHaus930]

As far as files are concerned I have a set of needle files from Harbor Freight and I use them for making picks from wiper inserts so I would imagine they would work for making keys as well. This is the set that I have http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-n ... t-468.html It's only $3 and comes with 12 files. It has round, half round, triangle, square, and other various files. For $1 more you can get the same set with handles which is what I would recommend. http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-p ... -4614.html

[Jacob Morgan]

Apparently it was common practice years ago to file down pins to fit. That was before universal re-pinning kits in small increments were available? I have a locksmithing course from the 1960's and filing down pins was routine. These days I think filing down pins flush with the plug is frowned upon as the correct lengths are available in the market. If you are interested in only one brand of lock then you can get a pin kit for just that brand with factory original sizes. Otherwise you can buy a large kit in .003 or .005 increments. LAB makes a popular kit, Foley Belsaw sells a smaller kit rebranded from LAB. If you watch eBay you might find a deal on one. If you're not into it that much you could buy a small do-it-yourself repinning kit from Amazon or a hardware store for each brand you are interested in. The large universal kits include lists of MACS for each brand, top pin lengths, etc. The smaller kits don't include that. MACS has to do with how different in length adjacent pins can be. If you don't buy a big kit then do a web search for the info and print it out.

For keys, if you're planning on doing Impressioning then a #4 cut Swiss pippen or round file from Grobet is called for. Gordon has a great thread on that topic that got me started on it. It is challenging at first but it really is worthwhile to learn. If you are not planning on Impressioning then a normal smooth cut file that can make cuts about the same size of the cuts on keys would work fine. Nicholson is a decent brand in the US. Regarding that course from the 1960's, locksmiths used to cut keys to code with files and some people would even duplicate keys by file.

[GWiens2001]

When at work (I am a mechanic, not a locksmith), if I need to copy a key, I file to copy. Have cut keys to code as well using files and a micrometer. So it is still done. Also come across plugs and pins that have been filed. Done correctly, the pins can work fine. But filing the plug makes the shear line wider, reducing security and increasing pickability.

Another place to look for pinning kits... Craigslist. I have a full size .003 LAB kit that I got with a complete refill set of pins (which I still have not needed to use) for about $75 off Craigslist. Have not seen one there before or since, but then again I normally only look at Craigslist for safe locks. Don't find too many of those, either, which probably pleases my chief financial officer (wife).

Gordon

[WestCoastPicks]

I had seen a couple videos insisting to clean with WD-40, dry (maybe with an air duster), and apply wet lube. Have you had any experience with that? I almost bought graphite and teflon to see which I liked, but I just went with teflon. I heard a lot of good things about the 3-in-1 but I only have a couple locks to play with and the cutaways, so I'll be trying one lube at a time. I could only imagine the result of graphite and WD-40

I was referring to modifying blank keys. Do people usually modify pins?

What would be considered the "right size?" I was recommended a #4 Swiss cut round file. Looking at chainsaw files they're really similar though. I was also thinking about a half-round file for comfort, but it seems like it wouldn't last as long. Also, is there a universal pinning kit that's "standard?" I looked at ebay, amazon, and a few locksmith sites, and I don't mind putting in a few bucks, I just don't want to blindly invest into something sub-par. A few people said they collect old locks and take pins from those; they either have a lot more patience or time than I do

Thanks again for your responses. It's good to see that this site tends to its beginners, intermediates, and advanced.

You can modify pins too. Serrated, mushroom, spool etc.

As for file size, I have and use an entire set of like a dozen files. But you if you think about it all you need is a small $10 needle file set from home depot. It's all in how comfortable you are taking off lots of metal at one time. If you are new at hand filing, smaller files will remove metal slower and in smaller amounts. A lot easier for a beginner. But it takes a long time to remove lots of metal. Bigger files will remove the metal faster and in a larger area, so you have to be confident and sure.

I would start with a small $10 needle file set from home depot. They will work, not break the bank, you can progress to bigger files later. Also you will always have the small ones and use them all the time for finer work.