Spicing up the recipe? (practice lock pinning)

[Squelchtone]

Last night, my practice lock arrived. Judging by the keys I believe it's a pretty standard Schlage 6 pin cylinder. However, the guy I bought it from threw in a bunch of extra pins, springs, serrated, spools, etc. upon request.

Prior to last night, I'd never had any experience with spools or serrated pins. At first, I left 5 normal pins in and then added a spool in the first chamber just to visualize how it functioned and felt. First attempt failed but I got it on the second try. Trick was using very little pressure on the wrench.

Today at work I took out all the pins and started with a single spool. Next I added a serrated, then a spool, and finally two of the longest pins. Those actually are the most challenging. Instead of the spools and serrated pins which seem to grip up nicely...the longer straight ones don't. Now sure why but those bastards don't want to stay up on the first pass. But I've picked that combination about a dozen times now. Just didn't think I'd be able to do it that fast but I guess I'm a quick learner.

First off, I'd really love to know why those longer pins I put in the rear are significantly more difficult than the spools and serrated pins?

Second, any advice on increasing the level of difficulty with this specific set of components? Right now all the pins bordering the springs are the same size and not spools or serrated. Does that matter?

As quick as I took to this I tried the lever handled Schlage at my office (again...I own the place!!)...and it wouldn't budge so I'd love to know what the difference is?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

[GWiens2001]

You'd have to field strip the lock to be sure of the difference.

Once you get used to security pins, they can actually be a help when picking. The false set is a giveaway, and the counter rotation really helps to know what is going on, and which pin is the security pin.

Have a Lockwood padlock that has no security pins in it at all, but it is quite a bit harder to SPP than some locks with a good reputation and decent security pins. It is harder to tell when you have a set since the quality on the lock is good, with tight tolerances. That said, it does rake open much easier than it SPPs open.

Gordon

[emt1581]

You'd have to field strip the lock to be sure of the difference.

Once you get used to security pins, they can actually be a help when picking. The false set is a giveaway, and the counter rotation really helps to know what is going on, and which pin is the security pin.

Have a Lockwood padlock that has no security pins in it at all, but it is quite a bit harder to SPP than some locks with a good reputation and decent security pins. It is harder to tell when you have a set since the quality on the lock is good, with tight tolerances. That said, it does rake open much easier than it SPPs open.

Gordon

That makes sense about needing to field strip my door's lock.

Security pins...those are the serrated/spool? False set...I've heard that mentioned many times. What is that exactly?

So what makes the longer pins in the rear harder to pick vs. the spool/serrated?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

[GWiens2001]

If you are referring to long driver pins, then that means there are probably short key pins. So those pins must be lifted higher in the keyway without overlifting the pins in positions closer to the keyway entrance.

When I recommend progressive pinning to someone, I recommend starting the pinning at the back of the lock. That way you learn to negotiate the keyway before you start adding more pins. If you do it the other way around, then you are not only dealing with more pins, but with a more restricted keyway as well.

And yes, security pins include may types such as serrated, spooled, spoorated, mushroom, trampoline pins like those found in TrioVing, Christmas-tree pins (for which ASSA is famous), drunken spool pins (DOM S) and others.

Gordon

[emt1581]

If you are referring to long driver pins, then that means there are probably short key pins. So those pins must be lifted higher in the keyway without overlifting the pins in positions closer to the keyway entrance.

When I recommend progressive pinning to someone, I recommend starting the pinning at the back of the lock. That way you learn to negotiate the keyway before you start adding more pins. If you do it the other way around, then you are not only dealing with more pins, but with a more restricted keyway as well.

And yes, security pins include may types such as serrated, spooled, spoorated, mushroom, trampoline pins like those found in TrioVing, Christmas-tree pins (for which ASSA is famous), drunken spool pins (DOM S) and others.

Gordon

Thanks for the info. Where might I be able to buy some of those more exotic pins (just the pins) for my lock?

Thanks

-Emt1581

[kwoswalt99-]

False set...I've heard that mentioned many times. What is that exactly?

That's when the core turns a noticeable amount, but the lock doesn't open. Some of the pins are set, and some aren't (usually security pins).

[emt1581]

False set...I've heard that mentioned many times. What is that exactly?

That's when the core turns a noticeable amount, but the lock doesn't open. Some of the pins are set, and some aren't (usually security pins).

Got it. From what I saw in vids, the false set, with specifically spools, is what concerned me because I thought that was an indicator that the spools had jammed. However, so long as I keep minimal pressure on the wrench and press the spools (and serrated) up onto the chamber with constant pressure, it seems like a non-issue. The same might not be true of the more exotic pins mentioned earlier which is why I'd love to find some without having to buy another lock just yet.

In my case, the security pins were set but those longer pins in the back just refused.

Thanks

-Emt1581

[Joshua904]

The longer standard pins in the back- they just don't stay up once set?
If that's what's going on, try giving the other "set" pins a rake. Maybe they all look set but once has a little lip that's still catching. It would give you a false set from all the other security pins, but prevent enough turn on the core to allow any binding on the last two. Or maybe one of the set pins is slightly over set and you can't see it. Raking it gently might dislodge it and give a proper set.
I have some practice locks and don't really like them because I'll focus more on how it looks vs how it feels. But they are nice for security pins to understand and see what's going on with the different feelings they give.

You'll get it, from this point on its just practice and honing your skills

[emt1581]

The longer standard pins in the back- they just don't stay up once set?
If that's what's going on, try giving the other "set" pins a rake. Maybe they all look set but once has a little lip that's still catching. It would give you a false set from all the other security pins, but prevent enough turn on the core to allow any binding on the last two. Or maybe one of the set pins is slightly over set and you can't see it. Raking it gently might dislodge it and give a proper set.
I have some practice locks and don't really like them because I'll focus more on how it looks vs how it feels. But they are nice for security pins to understand and see what's going on with the different feelings they give.

You'll get it, from this point on its just practice and honing your skills

That makes sense about ones that seem set, not truly being all the way set.

Just so I'm understanding the game right.... When I push pins up and set them in place, is it typical to go in order from back to front or front to back or...and you mentioned the core turning, is it pretty individual and due to miniscule differences in the pins/core...they will set in a completely random order?

I ask because if it's more random...that would explain the whole issue I had with the rear pins...well partly....but as previously mentioned it could also be that the security pins weren't always set.

I know I said this was a practice lock but I just meant this was a lock for me to practice with. It does have hex head strews to change out the pins but it's not a cutaway lock so I can't see anything.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

[Joshua904]

The order they bind in depends on slight imperfections in machining. The holes might be offset slightly, they might be slightly different diameters, or similar idea with the pins. Sometimes starting from the back opens the lock faster because the front pins might get bumped by the shaft of your pick and set... Or it makes it harder because you bump them and over set them. Just work your way back and forth testing the pins, even the set ones incase one dropped when you picked another (what spool pins were designed to do). Could also be a sign you picked them out of order.. That's why it's good to keep a mental note of the order you pick them in.

[kwoswalt99-]

The same might not be true of the more exotic pins mentioned earlier which is why I'd love to find some without having to buy another lock just yet.
-Emt1581

I doubt you will have much luck finding some online. You would be more likely to find someone who has some. You can always make your own, you can copy designs already out there or make up your own. There's a few tutorials on here about making them in a drill or dremel.