Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

SFIC, first impressions.

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

SFIC, first impressions.

Postby WestCoastPicks » 15 Apr 2016 15:11

So a while back I was just getting in to SFIC and had a post lamenting about the price of SFIC cores. Just posting this info in the hopes that someone looking to get in to SFIC might get something out if it.

SFIC stand for: Small Format Interchangeable Core.

Wiki:
The modern interchangeable core - and all other cores, as well - actually has its roots in a bulkier, pedestal-shaped removable configuration developed in 1919 by Frank Best, then proprietor of Best Universal Lock Company. Frank Best's family business lineage has since expanded over the years but, currently, is most recognizable via the two competing Indianapolis, Indiana area entities generally referenced with his surname: Best Access (Stanley Security Solutions, Inc dba Best Access Systems) and Best Security (Marshall Best Security Corp).


When I first started getting in to SFIC, the first thing I noticed was the price. IF you don't know where to look, these cost an arm and a leg.
Most locksmiths I talked to don't even work on them. And as a result don't have much of it around, don't know a lot about them, and will just drill them out when faced with them. Finding SFIC stuff locally might not be an option, or might cost a lot.

The first SFIC I bought was an A keyway Best. The core everyone pictures in their head when you say SFIC. 6 Pins, chrome, says best on the IC. $65. It came with 2 keys, 1 access, 1 control. Even on Ebay.ca, a single best A keyway SFIC can still go for over $30 after shipping.
I wanted a good sample set to work with. Different brands and types etc... So I asked around, and found a new Medeco (keymark) x4. 7 pins, 2 sliders on the side, 1 control key, 1 access key. $40. I thought I got a good deal.

Then I found Tim Monte. For about the price I paid for the medeco, ($45) I got 2 Falcon and 2 best cores. One of each chrome and brass, 3 keys for each, all different keyways, all pinned different. 2 access 1 control. Used, but just serviced and pinned up new. They came individually bagged, clean and in very nice shape. He included a printout of all the bitting information for each core (all the pins, not just the key pins). He will also do master keying and all that good stuff.

For someone like me, who just wants to learn more about SFIC and get a good sample set to play with. Tim is just what we need!
He says he has thousands, and his prices are unbeatable! I'll be placing another order soon, just to get a couple more brands I don't already have. I have a printout of his price list if anyone is interested, but I suggest emailing him if you have any questions. [EDIT: email address removed]

So what I've found so far, is that brands don't make much of a difference. The format is so tight fitting, there is literally no room for any real variation. There are 5 - 6 and 7 pin versions, the only difference is the length of the IC. Most companies will use standard best keyways, so finding keys generally isn't very hard. Unless you have a restricted keyway (like the medeco). Most the older stuff is no longer restricted and is easy to find.

They don't have any security pins, unless someone has opened it and done some work, they are all standard pins. Because there are two shear lines in these locks, you have to match one of the two bittings to access or control the lock. You cannot mix the two bittings while picking, even one pin in the wrong shear line and the core will not turn. So the security in these locks are in the complexity of the cores. They are pickable, they are rakeable. They just freeze up more than most locks due to the constant over/under setting of pins. This makes them perfect for raking, you're just playing the odds. Rake for 10 seconds, reset, try again. Do it till it opens or gives you control. Because you can rake fast, and reset fast, it's much quicker than SPP in most cases. where you can SPP it till it doesn't have anymore feedback, reset it and try again, takes a lot longer.

After about a week of playing with these sfic cores, I've come to like the quality of the product. Also I can see how easy it would make it to manage large amounts of locks in a short period of time. They pick a lot like a lock with master pins, except you can set the wrong pin and not know it. So when SPPing I treat them like serrated pins, one click at a time. These are definitely fun to pick and examine. So grab a couple SFIC padlocks and some cores, and go to town!

Image
Last edited by Squelchtone on 15 Apr 2016 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No posting of email addresses in forum threads please.
Image
WestCoastPicks
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 8 Mar 2016 0:11
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby MatrixBlackRock » 15 Apr 2016 16:40

WestCoastPicks wrote:Then I found Tim Monte. For about the price I paid for the medeco, ($45) I got 2 Falcon and 2 best cores. One of each chrome and brass, 3 keys for each, all different keyways, all pinned different. 2 access 1 control. Used, but just serviced and pinned up new. They came individually bagged, clean and in very nice shape. He included a printout of all the bitting information for each core (all the pins, not just the key pins). He will also do master keying and all that good stuff.


I am a communications guy with some decent mechanical skills and one fine day after an acquisition of a number of tower sites, I became the companies locksmith, great title, but I didn't know crap about what I was shoved into. I did a lot of research and found the BEST/IC system is well documented, but limited in the finer details of how to deploy the system.

Then I came across Tim Monte, who strangely enough retired from the same profession I was in and was very helpful, Tim is an upstanding guy and very knowledgeable when it comes to the IC system.

Wayne
MatrixBlackRock
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 25 Mar 2015 8:43

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby cledry » 15 Apr 2016 17:02

Evan who used to post on here is very knowledgeable in SFIC keying.

I work on them almost every day myself, but the most common I see is also the most problematic, Falcon Instakey. These work differently than any other SFIC cylinder.
Jim
User avatar
cledry
 
Posts: 2836
Joined: 7 Mar 2009 23:29
Location: Orlando

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby jeffmoss26 » 15 Apr 2016 20:59

Instakey is most certainly a pain.
Our very own AverageJoe is also quite helpful when it comes to SFIC.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
jeffmoss26
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: 13 Jan 2012 15:01
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby WestCoastPicks » 18 Apr 2016 18:15

cledry wrote:Evan who used to post on here is very knowledgeable in SFIC keying.

I work on them almost every day myself, but the most common I see is also the most problematic, Falcon Instakey. These work differently than any other SFIC cylinder.


Haven't had the pleasure of playing with one of those. What is different about it?
Image
WestCoastPicks
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 8 Mar 2016 0:11
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby jeffmoss26 » 18 Apr 2016 19:49

The website (http://www.instakey.com) explains it fairly well - but basically it is user rekeyable for chain stores that have a lot of key loss/turnover/etc

You use a 'step change key' with a notch in the bottom which removes a master wafer, rendering one level of keys inoperable.
They also use restricted Falcon keyways so nobody is making duplicates...the keys are serialized and tracked via a web portal that Instakey runs.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
jeffmoss26
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: 13 Jan 2012 15:01
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby WestCoastPicks » 18 Apr 2016 22:52

jeffmoss26 wrote:The website (http://www.instakey.com) explains it fairly well - but basically it is user rekeyable for chain stores that have a lot of key loss/turnover/etc

You use a 'step change key' with a notch in the bottom which removes a master wafer, rendering one level of keys inoperable.
They also use restricted Falcon keyways so nobody is making duplicates...the keys are serialized and tracked via a web portal that Instakey runs.


, sounds like a pain. I'll read in to it, thanks for the info!
Image
WestCoastPicks
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 8 Mar 2016 0:11
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby dll932 » 20 Apr 2016 17:31

jeffmoss26 wrote:Instakey is most certainly a pain.
Our very own AverageJoe is also quite helpful when it comes to SFIC.

Repeat after me: "How many ways can this screw up?" :)

I used to run into U-Change It cvlinders at stores and I would replace them if possible. There are dimple key camlocks that work the same way as the Instakey locks, but with a limited number of changes.
dll932
 
Posts: 454
Joined: 31 Mar 2013 22:42
Location: Euclid, Ohio USA

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby WestCoastPicks » 20 Apr 2016 20:19

dll932 wrote:
jeffmoss26 wrote:Instakey is most certainly a pain.
Our very own AverageJoe is also quite helpful when it comes to SFIC.

Repeat after me: "How many ways can this screw up?" :)

I used to run into U-Change It cvlinders at stores and I would replace them if possible. There are dimple key camlocks that work the same way as the Instakey locks, but with a limited number of changes.


Was going to say, I have a mul-t-lock that has a green yellow red key system. You use the green key normally. If you lose your keys or they are stolen, you use the yellow key. It changes the bitting to the yellow key, and the green keys will no longer work. There is one more stage with a red key, then you have to bring it in to get reset.

looking at the green and yellow key, I notice the only difference is on the first inside pin. The rest of the bitting is the exact same on all the other 9 pins. Despite this, I've picked it many times, never to the yellow key. So I guess I'm lucky, or maybe moving that master pin aside takes more pressure than I'm willing to put on a pick. Maybe one day I'll open it up and look inside.
Image
WestCoastPicks
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 8 Mar 2016 0:11
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: SFIC, first impressions.

Postby Mudman » 22 Apr 2016 2:33

I just got 3 SFIC from Tim as well, really nice guy. These are my first, and I haven't had luck picking any yet- although I did just get them today. They are a lot smaller than I imagined, the internet always adds ten pounds. :lol:

Wish more locks were commonly available with replaceable cores.
Mudman
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 9 Mar 2016 21:28
Location: California, USA


Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests