combination safe lock manipulation (old locked safe)

[zandan]

Ok, good suggestion
about starting at 20 instead of
at 0.

I'm already working in the 20 area
on one mapping sequence. I'll
finish that one for whatever/however
I've done it with the mistakes.

The next mapping will start at 30
and I'll try your advice femerat(sp?)

Thanks for the heads up, all of you
out there, your comments make
me want to continue manipulation
of this yale oc5 instead of giving up.

Till later, zandan, out

can you write up an example of graphing a wheel of your choice, just so we can see if we're all on the same page on the procedure? Are you using graph paper or just keeping a list of interesting numbers?

Also, the point of graphing is to find changes in the contact area at the contact point, not to just "map"/write down/graph where you may hear things bumping or grinding along the wheels circumference. I think you know this, but I'm writing it out just to make sure, not trying to talk down to you or anything like that.

Also, if you want to quote someone, just click the red Quote box (in the top right corner of the persons post, near their name and profile info), so it will auto quote and you wont have to copy and paste what you want to quote.

talk soon,
Squelchtone

Yeah Squelchtone,
I'll get to that with some sequences
I'm using. With the time I'm spending on this
I'll give you some sequences and maybe on
graph on the graph paper I'm using.
I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right but one
never knows for sure. Thanks for the
heads up on this and I'll do as you suggested
as soon as I complete one of the graphs
that I'm working on.

thanks again for everything, it does
help me

zandan, out for now

[femurat]

femerat(sp?)

I don't get what this means. I've tried googling it and a blonde pornstar came out... I'm not her if this is what you were asking

Cheers

Well femurat, I didn't mean to send you
to a pornsite. The (sp?) means that I
wasn't too sure of the spelling of
your moniker here at Lockpicking 101

zandan

Well that was so obvious now that you mention it... I feel so dumb right now.

Good luck with your manipulation

[zandan]

Sorry for not getting back to all
of you that are following this thread as
I would be if I wanted to see how an old
yale oc5 combo lock manipulates with
everything that can happen which also
might apply to some other safe combo
lock that's being manipulated.

All of you have been a great help to me
and it is appreciated. I've determined that
one of the numbers is indeed a 40 and
I believe it to be the third number before
turning out to open at the 10.

Squelchtone, I'll have get back to you
on the method I'm using but later because
I have a family death back east to deal
with right now.

Before signing off I will say that I've
been in touch with another locksmith/vault/safe
technician. His comment to me was, 'you know
you might try some numbers closer together and
by this I mean you're using numbers to go to
which are about 10 dial points or more away from whatever
trial numbers you're using. With all of the indications
coming and going, supposed fence readings, etc.
you might consider numbers being closer together
with a very careful manipulating of them. I find that
when a combo lock on a safe is hard to manipulate
like yours seems to be, more often than not the
numbers are set too close together and even the
dialing of them, even if just one number is very
close to the next---like going from a 20 to a 25,
the fence doesn't have enough time to react
even if you have more than one rotation to it
on the dial.' Hope I'm explaining this correctly
but essentially he's saying with any of the combo
numbers too close together the lock won't open
easily on manipulation.

Have to take a break to take care of things back east

zandan, will be back in action on this next week
thanks everybody, till later

[Squelchtone]

Sorry about your loss, have a safe trip and the we'll be here when you are free to come back. When graphing, are you giong 1,2,3,4,5,6,..97,98,99 around the wheels or the speedier less accurate way of 1,2.5,5,7.5,10.. 95.97.5,99 ?

talk soon,
Squelchtone

[zandan]

Sorry everyone, I'm still back east
fighting this probate case with
my sister. Just thought I'd check
in so you know I haven't fallen off
the grid.

My problems with the resolution
of my case should resolve soon
and I'll be back, hopefully in form
to continue with the problem of
opening the safe. One reply is
real close to the truth where
Christopher is correct. The 10
is the out, last stop number but
20, 30 and 40 will have to be sequenced
properly by either trying these numbers
or graphing them. I'm not to sure
but I believe that one of the numbers
is too close to another with less
than 10 points separating one of the
numbers from another and I might
not have a 20 30 or 40 as one of
the numbers but something less
on just one of them. Especially
with this Yale OC5 lock this condition
makes is real hard to find the contact
point for one of the numbers.
Well that's for now. Sorry I haven't
been in touch sooner but legal
battles with attorneys and courts
always chew up more time than
should be.

Until later, I'll get back to all of you
and Squelchtone thanks for all of
your help in the past and this applies
to others as well.

See ya, zandan

[Squelchtone]

Hey GWiens2001, lookie what I bought today! =)

My very own Yale OC-5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271698445461

Can't wait to clean it up and mount it. Should make for some good practice. I wonder if Zandan ever got his safe open..


Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Hey GWiens2001, lookie what I bought today! =)

My very own Yale OC-5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271698445461

Can't wait to clean it up and mount it. Should make for some good practice. I wonder if Zandan ever got his safe open..


Squelchtone

Don't know if he got it open, but it will be fun for you to work on manipulating that OC-5. Congratulations on the new addition to the family.

Gordon

[dls]

[Mikeh727]

Hey GWiens2001, lookie what I bought today! =)

My very own Yale OC-5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271698445461

Can't wait to clean it up and mount it. Should make for some good practice. I wonder if Zandan ever got his safe open..


Squelchtone

Jealous! I never seem to be surfing eBay at the right time to find one of those. Great buy Squelch!

-Mike

[docjon]

Could always call Jeff Sitar. World champion safe cracker.

[hag3l3]

You got yourself one beautiful Yale there. Wish I was close by. I would open that for you for free.
I just finished mounting one at the shop for display.
Do you have access to an audio mic and ear phones?

[rhovee]

Sorry for my reply to such an old post. I found this on a google image search.

I inherited this identical safe from my late father. My mother and I think we have the combination. But when we turn it the last time once to zero it stops but then small knob to the left of the dial won't turn at all and of course the door won't open.

Is something jammed up inside maybe or do I need to turn the combo dial more (past zero). I don't want to force it.

The dial spins fairly smooth and doesn't make much noise and the door jiggles so it doesn't seem bound up.

Or is it possible that I have one or two of the numbers correct but not all three? Would that allow the dial to stop on the last turn (for example if I have the third number correct)?

Thanks guys.

[Squelchtone]

Sorry for my reply to such an old post. I found this on a google image search.

I inherited this identical safe from my late father. My mother and I think we have the combination. But when we turn it the last time once to zero it stops but then small knob to the left of the dial won't turn at all and of course the door won't open.

Is something jammed up inside maybe or do I need to turn the combo dial more (past zero). I don't want to force it.

The dial spins fairly smooth and doesn't make much noise and the door jiggles so it doesn't seem bound up.

Or is it possible that I have one or two of the numbers correct but not all three? Would that allow the dial to stop on the last turn (for example if I have the third number correct)?

Thanks guys.

Hi,
Sorry about your loss.

We can try to help you out.

Have you read this entire thread? I think we changed the dialing sequence a couple times. And just to make sure, because a lot of old safes looked very similar, you have "The Safe-Cabinet Standard M.E. Type"with a Yale lock, correct?

Have you read this one:

The standard dialing sequence for most Yale locks (OC5 series) that I would expect to find on this safe, would be:

4 times Right to the first number,
3 times Left to the second number,
2 times Right to the third number,
1 time Left until the dial stops (around 10).

Note: Left is counter clockwise, Right is clockwise. DO NOT count the revolutions of the dial, count the INDIVIDUAL number as it arrives at the 12 o'clock index mark. For instance if your first number is 50, you will turn the dial clockwise (right), stopping the fourth time the number 50 ARRIVES at the index mark.
There is NO STARTING POINT, simply start dialing right and count 50 once, 50 twice, 50 three times, stopping on 50 the fourth time.

Hopefully this helps you.

Keep turning the dial past 0 and see if it stop around 10.

Squelchtone

[rhovee]

I can try turning past zero to 10. Didn't want to force it. I'm going 4R, 3L, 2R, 1L and when I don't do the right combo it spins freely past zero like expected. But when I do the combo it stops at 0.

Is it possible to stop at zero when only one or two numbers are correct? I watched the video on Feyhnberg doing the safe cracking with math and I think it mentions that he was able to rule out at least one of the numbers completely on these old safes. But maybe that was only when the door was open.

Doh- just looked and my safe looks similar but is a bit different. It's a S-cientist (how it's spelled) Safe Cabinet, Marietta OH, with Yale lock. Looks very similar to this one.

[Squelchtone]

I can try turning past zero to 10. Didn't want to force it. I'm going 4R, 3L, 2R, 1L and when I don't do the right combo it spins freely past zero like expected. But when I do the combo it stops at 0.

Is it possible to stop at zero when only one or two numbers are correct? I watched the video on Feyhnberg doing the safe cracking with math and I think it mentions that he was able to rule out at least one of the numbers completely on these old safes. But maybe that was only when the door was open.

Doh- just looked and my safe looks similar but is a bit different. It's a S-cientist (how it's spelled) Safe Cabinet, Marietta OH, with Yale lock. Looks very similar to this one.

To answer your question, no it is not typically possible to stop hard on 0 if you didnt get all 3 numbers of the combination correctly. Is 0 the 1L number? You can do two things, keep turning left past 0 so dial ends up at 10, or if you really think 0 is a dead stop (dont worry you wont break anything if you grip the dial hard with you hand and try to turn left some more) you can then leave the dial on 0 and try turning the knobby handle clockwise or counterclockwise in quick sharp motions to retract the door bolts. When's the last time you reckon this door was actually open? There might be some surface rust on the inner parts depending on the climate you are in.

Feel free to share a picture of your safe cabinet, picture is worth a 1000 words.
Good luck
Squelchtone